CBM-170s Or HTM-200s ?

[TomK]

I have on order a pair of CMT-340s and a Hsu STF-2 Sub. If they are half as good as reported I will go ahead and order a CMT Center speaker. Here is the question. Would the HTM-200s make decent surround speakers? My problem with the CBM-170s is the size. Anyone have an opinion?

Tom

[BradJudy]

This question comes up pretty regularly here and I think you'll find that most people agree that the HTM-200 makes an excellent surround. The situations where you see other recommendations is either if multichannel music (DVD-A or SACD) is big for you or if you have money to burn on 340s all around. :D

[bikeman]

As usual, I concur with Brad. I have the 200's doing surround duty with my 340's accross the front and I'm very satisfied. I don't do multi-channel music so that wasn't a consideration. I also had speaker stands that fit the 200's but not the 170's so that saved me a chunk o' change on new stands. The smaller size also has a WAF that's hard to beat.
Some of the regulars have both or have had both at some point Maybe they'll chime in.
When I first got the 200's, I hooked them up in a two channel system to see how they performed on their own. With a sub like the Hsu STF-1 it would make for a very good low budget two channel system. As surrounds in a HT, the need for a lower octave is greatly (although not completely) diminished.

David

[BGHD]

Concur w/ above. 200s are fine unless you're hardcore into SACD/DVDA. That said, while using 200s as side surrounds, they did a fine job w/ SACD/DVDA. Big plus of the 200s, can mount flush to wall and is quite a bit smaller than the 170.

[TomK]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like I'll be going with the 200s. You will probably laugh at this but I made cardboard boxes the size of the 170 and 200 to get an idea of what they would look like sticking out from the walls. There is a big difference. With a dedicated home theater room I would go with 170s or even the 340s for surround but not in the living room. I don't want to end up sleeping in the shed if you catch my drift. :eek:

Tom

[dae3dae3]

I just went through the same decision but I fell to the dark side and got the CBM-170's. No reason other than "because."

I think if my wife was going to make me sleep in the shed it would have happened with the 32.5" tall waterheater/subwoofer in the living room. :D

I did let her pick the couch she wanted the other night though so I guess it is fair.

That's what I tell myself at least. :o

[bikeman]

I don't want to end up sleeping in the shed if you catch my drift. :eek:
Tom
You get a shed? You were lucky. I only get a tarp. :D

David

[S_rangeBrew]

I'm using HTM-200s in 2.1 system as mains, and they work well. When my house is ready in a few weeks, I'll be moving them into a new room and setting up a full 7.1 surround system.

I'm debating going with all HTM-200s, or using CBM-170s for the front 3 speakers. They will be wall mounted, vertically, at the same level above the television/screen.

I'll be using a 80hz crossover, which seems to work well in my current odd-shaped room. I'm thinking the only thing that would make me get 170s over 200s is if there was a hole in the response curve with the 200s that the 170s wouldn't have. Or unless somebody has noticed a big difference in sound quality between the 170s and 200s. I know the 200s play PLENTY loud enough, and they are better sounding than pretty much any other speaker I've tried. Anyone got any input?

:)

[bikeman]

I experimented a bit and found a crossover above 80hz worked better with the 200's in my situation. I've read that 80hz works great with the 170's.

David

[JeffD2]

As the owner of a full HTM200 5.1 system, I can vouch for the sound quality once calibrated and integrated with the sub. I use an 80Hz crossover and generally listen to Ozzy/ACDC type music. My system is in a living space and I spent many, many, hours and days, emails with Dave F, calibrations, moving furniture, etc. to get the system dialed in. In the end it was worth it. Having never heard the 170's but from what I have read, they might be less "labor intensive" with their greater range in the lower frequencies.

I would love to hear someone else's Ascend system. Anyone within 50 miles of Albany, New York?

[bikeman]

I would love to hear someone else's Ascend system. Anyone within 50 miles of Albany, New York?
I'm 120 miles west on Route 20 (140 miles on the Thruway). I like the ride on Route 20 much better but it does take a few extra minutes. If you're ever out this way, let me know. I have four floors of audio with the 340's my prize possession.

David

[JeffD2]

Thanks Dave.

I'm driving 380 miles this weekend to a DBT sub shootout. I just found out one of the participants has a 340 system. Dunno if I can convince or even fit in a suitable demo. I'll keep you on radar though. Again, thanks for the offer. :cool:

:eek: WAIT A MINUTE... I'm taking I-90 W to Buffalo to get there. Is that on the way?

Jeff

[bikeman]

:eek: WAIT A MINUTE... I'm taking I-90 W to Buffalo to get there. Is that on the way?
Jeff
Are you heading to Erie? Of course we're on the way.
Let me know.

David

[JeffD2]

Hi David,
Yes, I'm heading to Erie, PA for the sub shootout (someone has be unbiased :D ). I'll be leaving Saturday early AM but can adjust to suit your schedule. I know it may be short notice, so don't feel obligated. I'll prolly be in your area between 11am to 1pm. I have a room reserved in Erie, so it doesn't really matter when I get there (the shootout is on Sunday). Let me know how this all fits with you. We can PM any particulars.

Thank you,

Jeff

[bikeman]

you've got a PM.

David

[JeffD2]

You've got mail :)

[Quinn]

I thought that was going to be a speaker shootout?

[JeffD2]

Nope. SVS PB12 Ultra, Axion EP-500, EP-600, Velo DD18. An SVS PB10 and a UFW 12 might get thrown into the mix as well. We'll see.

[Quinn]

Nope. SVS PB12 Ultra, Axion EP-500, EP-600, Velo DD18. An SVS PB10 and a UFW 12 might get thrown into the mix as well. We'll see.

So what happened with the plans for a Paradigm, Energy(?), Axiom, Rockets/Onix, Audes, etc. shootout?

[JeffD2]

:confused: :confused: . Are you talking about the shootout at craigsub's :eek: place?

[Quinn]

:confused: :confused: . Are you talking about the shootout at craigsub's :eek: place?

Yes. He had a speaker shootout planned for this weekend. I assumed from saying Erie that that is who is hosting this.

[curtis]

The speaker shootout is postponed....I am not sure of the reason, but I think it has something to do with not having all the speakers planned.

[Quinn]

The speaker shootout is postponed....I am not sure of the reason, but I think it has something to do with not having all the speakers planned.

Thanks. I went and found the thread on AVS and learned as much.

[bikeman]

Got a chance to briefly entertain Jeff and his son Nick yesterday afternoon. They were on their way to Erie, PA for the subwoofer shootout. Jeff is a class act and Nick appears to be a chip off the not so old block. Wish there would have been time to do more. We only got to demo a bit with the 340's. I'm pretty sure he liked em. ;)
Didn't get to demo the set-ups in my study and workout room but maybe next time. Someday we gotta have a GTG. February in a warm climate still gets my vote.

David

[JeffD2]

I want to publically thank David (Bikeman) in Syracuse for his gracious invitation to his home to demo the Ascend 340s. It was nice to see I'm not the only one with a challenging room ;) . As some of you may know I've been quite busy over the weekend and under some time constraints. I do wish I could've spent more time with David as he a is true gentleman quite knowledgable in his audio gear.

My Impression of the 340s-
I can now say with confidence that I truly know what superb detailing, excellant imaging and sound stage sounds like. David had offered to allow me my choice of music which typically would have been 70s-80s hard rock. While he was thumbing through his collection, I noticed Diana Krall Live in Paris. I said "whoa, let me get a taste of that!" I have read so much about this recording being of reference status, I just had to hear it. Well thank goodness we did. We played about 4 tracks from the album and both me and my son were captivated by the presence of the 340's. Every nuance of music from wire brush taps on cymbals, chimes, bongos, piano, upright bass, all of it, conveyed seamlessly and never seaming arrive directly from any particular speaker but from a general direction when the mix called upon it to do so. Even my hip-hop, rap loving son was completely impressed and actually quite satisified in our choice of sampling. He would later remark to me the 340s actually sounded as natural as when he attends his girlfriend's piano recitals, high praise indeed.

Being real macho men, it was time for some fun. Blowing up stuff and big explosions never gets old. David has a demo/calibration disc with a DTS track featuring a reknowned demolition crew blowing up buildings, parking garages, stadiums, you name it, all set to a really cool Tangerine Dream 5.1 mix accompanying it. Great stuff. I really did appreciate the lower range of the 340s compared to my HTM200s. David was also kind enough to offer to let me borrow the demo, and for that I'm very appreciative. It was funny today when we played the demo on my system. My son and I turned to each in other in unison and said "this sounded better at David's house". :cool:

Another thing that surprised me with the 340s their appearance. Their sleek narrow design appears to me to have a very high WAF. I commented to David that I think these would be an easy sell to my wife. Certainly easier than the 170s.

When upgrade time comes, I think I know whats gonna get the first hard look.

Once again, thank you David.

[S_rangeBrew]

I really did appreciate the lower range of the 340s compared to my HTM200s. David was also kind enough to offer to let me borrow the demo, and for that I'm very appreciative. It was funny today when we played the demo on my system. My son and I turned to each in other in unison and said "this sounded better at David's house". :cool:

Did it sound better at David's house because of the 340s or did he just have a better subwoofer? I would think with a 80hz x-over, the lack of sound below 80hz with the HTM-200s wouldn't be that noticeable.

I thought you had a pretty good (hole-free) frequency respose curve with your sub and HTM-200s? I do with mine, the only thing I notice is the booming of my Sony SAW-M40 12" subwoofer. It's not the ideal music sub. I guess that's why I'm wondering if David had a better subwoofer than you do.

Signed,
HTM-200 fanboi.

[JeffD2]

I have an SVS PB10 and David a Dayton 10. Obviously I would have more LFE extension but our (me and my son) overall impression was David's system sounded better. I don't presume to speak for David, but my impression is that he uses his system almost exclusively for music and the Dayton for a touch more bump. Which BTW he appears to have integrated perfectly with the 340s.

[bikeman]

I have an SVS PB10 and David a Dayton 10. Obviously I would have more LFE extension but our (me and my son) overall impression was David's system sounded better. I don't presume to speak for David, but my impression is that he uses his system almost exclusively for music and the Dayton for a touch more bump. Which BTW he appears to have integrated perfectly with the 340s.
I wish I could have the Dayton "integrated perfectly with the 340's." I don't use the Dayton for music but Jeff mentioned that Nick was curious about the Dayton so I put it into the system for their visit.
I have no explanation as to why the demo disk didn't sound better at Jeff's place. I figured Nick would invite a few hundred close friends to hear it before I got it back. :D
The Dayton is truly a $100. wonder but it's not in the same league as a Hsu or SVS. Jeff and Nick were sitting in the prime LP and that could have something to do with it. I just can't explain it.

David

[JeffD2]

In overall performance, David's system was magnificent. The Dayton never called attention to itself but you knew it was there. I love that.

David, I'll be sending your disc back via UPS on Friday (I want blow up my parents on Thanksgiving), I'll email you the tracking number. Thanks, again.

[Derek]

TomK,

I sent you a private message.

Derek