Broken 340's? Distortion during dialog...

[hallgreng]

Hello, I am a long-time lurker, first time poster, and unfortunately it is not a happy post :(

For the past three weeks or so I have suspected that I heard slight distortion out of my 340's (L and R mains, no surrounds/center yet). Curiously, I do not hear any distortion when listening to loud music, action movies, or singing, but only during normal conversation.
Films that demonstrated the fact beyond the shadow of a doubt are
Lemony Snicket's a Series of Unfortunate Events, The Great Train Robbery, and The Fifth Element (Superbit).

Most of the time Jim Carey spoke in Lemony, his voice would create an annoying and i presume unhealthy distrortion in the sound coming out of the speakers (BOTH speakers).
The Fifth Element is less pronounced, but when the cop talks over his megaphone near the beginning of the movie, the distortion is heard.
In The Great Train Robbery it is far worse. Pretty much any time Donald Sutherland or Sean Connery spoke, it would distort very badly. The conversation at the 40minute mark is what I used as an A/B to troubleshoot this problem to be certain what device was the cause.

For reference, I call it distortion, but I may be wrong in my terminology. When speaking, particularly at the beginning of sentences or on words that are accentuated, I can hear a noticable "crackle". Perhaps like there is a vibration at that moment. Sort of like when you drive a pair of crappy headphones too hard. If anyone understands my description, then that is what is happening :o

As previously mentioned, I used the A/B function on my DVD player to loop a portion where the problem is easily heard and then proceeded to troubleshoot.

Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 Left Main
Ascend Acoustics CMT-340 Right Main
Marantz SR5500 AVR
Oppo DV917H DVD Player
Mitsubish WD52525 DLP Television (shouldnt matter, though)

The speakers are mounted firmly on their stands, standing on the supplied spikes on carpet. They dont touch anything around them except the floor (via the spikes) and the banana plugs in the back.

I have checked the connections (all tight), the cables (all solid), and all settings (speakers set as SMALL, 80Hz crossover, speakers I dont have set to NONE).
The DVD player was switched out for another and the problem persisted.
I listened to the speakers up close at -35 (as shown on the AVR) and still heard the distortion, so I do not believe it to be my driving the speakers too hard (I havent even taken them past -13 before).
This also occurs with other inputs (VHS, Satellite, video games).
This occurs over all sound profiles (Stereo, DLPII, Virtual, etc...)
Both speakers are afflicted, neither worse than the other.
I have not witnessed the problem with anything but spoken dialog (though it is certainly possible that I just havent heard it behind all the explosions or whatever else is going on).

I have done all that I can do to troubleshoot, and if I had another AVR I would put that in to verify it wasnt the Marantz, but at this point I dont think that is the problem anyway.

I think the biggest problem is that I am in Alaska and it cost me over $200 to have these speakers shipped up here (Ascend even ate some of the shipping cost, thanks again). So I REALLY dont want to have to send them back for a quick repair. The shipping to Ascend and then back to me would cost as much as a new 340 (which I cannot afford any more) :(

Does anyone have any idea as to what the problem may be? I am praying it is somehow my fault and it can be easily remedied, but if not then I am afraid I am stuck with $800 worth of functionally unusable speakers (and less than four months old :( )

Thanks in advance...

[Quinn]

You've got a 5 year transferable warranty. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/support/warranty.html

Give Ascend call in the morning and let them help you track down the issue or get you taken care of if the speakers need to be repaired.

If where you're hearing it is that limited it may be the source.

[bikeman]

Definitely get hold of Ascend as soon as you get a chance. It dosen't sound like a speaker problem to me but I'm no expert.

David

[JeffD2]

Beg or borrow another AVR. Also try new/different wires without bananas to the speakers while your at it. Since it happens on every source, IMO, the only things left are the AVR, wires/connections to speaks, or the 340's themselves.

Imagine if you did ship the 340's back to Ascend and they said there was nothing wrong with them :eek: :eek:

[hallgreng]

I will ask my co-workers today if any have AVRs I can borrow or test a speaker on.

I am quite weary about sending the speaker anywhere, as if I do, it is probably a one-way trip. I cant afford shipping to and from (that is over $400!) any location in the lower 48. Also I enjoy these speakers very much and would prefer not to have to get another brand :)

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions. I see that I cannot really determine anything without first ruling out the AVR. That is now top priority.

[BradJudy]

Yep, it's a process of elimination to find the culprit. Swap out receiver, cables, sources, etc until you identify the common factor. Even if the Ascends are broken, perhaps it's something that wouldn't require shipping (if you can handle a soldering iron, you could replace a bad driver for example).

If the common factor is the speakers, call Ascend and see if they can help you narrow it down to a component that can be replaced in the field.

[JeffD2]

Or you could just the speakers to the freinds place. A lot easier than dis/reconnecting an AVR. He/she prolly more agreeable to that!

[davef]

Hi Hallgreng,

I am sorry to hear about the distortion... Honestly, it does not sound like a speaker problem but I am not ruling out that possibility just yet.

It seems you only hear this distortion when listening to dialogue from a movie soundtrack. "Crackle" usually indicates either digital errors or amplifier clipping. If a tweeter was bad you would hear the same problem with music reproduction.

Since you are not using a center channel, what "surround" mode are you using for movie watching? Are you using a phantom center channel? How is your DVD player connected to the receiver? (digital or analog)

Since you are only using a stereo pair of speakers, try running the analog (left and right) audio outputs of the DVD player into the receiver and have a listen...

Is this something that has been noticeable since you have owned the speakers or has it just become noticeable?

Definitely give me a call when you have some free time, there are many possibilities that could be causing the problem. Worst case, if it turns out it is the speakers (which at this point I doubt), we will be able to send you replacement parts so don't be concerned about your remote location.

You are getting some excellent troubleshooting recommendations in this thread.. Testing out a different AVR (don't rule out the DVD player either) will help isolate the problem..

Hope to hear from you soon.

[hallgreng]

Since you are not using a center channel, what "surround" mode are you using for movie watching?
I normally use DPLII, but have tested all surround modes offered by my AVR.

Are you using a phantom center channel?
I suppose so, but I am not positive. I have not seen any option for that in my AVR's menus, so I presume that setting the AVR to DPLII while only having two speakers creates a phantom center. I dont have nearly-nonexistant voices like one would have when trying to output to a center channel that doesnt exist.

How is your DVD player connected to the receiver? (digital or analog)
Digital Coax from the DVD player to the receiver. It is a new cable, not too long, and not lieing along any power sources or cables.

Since you are only using a stereo pair of speakers, try running the analog (left and right) audio outputs of the DVD player into the receiver and have a listen...
I will do this as soon as I get home (I am perusing the forum at work, presently :D )

Is this something that has been noticeable since you have owned the speakers or has it just become noticeable?
I began suspecting I heard the problem about four weeks ago, but it was so subtle that I thought it was my imagination. During The Great Train Robbery, it became too obvious to mistake for my imagination. I dont know if it has progressed or if that particular movie sets it off (that is probably the worst audio quality DVD I have watched).

I had a friend drive home and unhooking his HK receiver during lunch break, so I will try nixing the digital coax on the dvd, and if that doesnt do it i'll swap out receivers.

Thank you all for your ongoing help

[hallgreng]

Well, I am sad to say that nothing I did was able to stop the crackling.
Things tried:

Used an HK receiver.
Used a Panny receiver.
Used my banana-ended speaker wires on all receivers.
Used completely different speaker wires without banana plugs on all receivers.
Used a different DVD player.
Used digital coax on both DVD players.
Used RCA audio on both DVD players.

I tested each speaker independantly and together and they both exhibited the crackling while I A/B looped a part of The Mask that is afflicted. When turned loud, the problem is less than obvious, but audible. When the volume is turned down, the problem is easier to hear even though the volume is set quite low.
The crackling's intensity seems to be relative to the current volume, yet exists at all volumes.

Well... any other suggestions? I've got the panny for another few days, so I can run some more receiver tests if anyone has any.

EDIT: This is probably a bad question to ask, as it will make me look guilty of something :o , but is there anything that can be done to speakers (through misuse, not opening or anything) that could damage them in this manner? What is a common cause of crackling when a speaker is damaged? Could this have been caused during shipping? Have you heard of this problem as I describe it with speakers before?
I am just curious, I would hate to think that I could do something to damage them myself.

[davef]

Hi Hallgreng,

I still do not suspect you have defective or damaged speakers, especially since you are hearing this "crackling" during a specific section of the Mask DVD.

If the tweeters or woofers were bad, the crackling would get considerably more noticeable as the volume increased, you have indicated just the opposite (crackling very noticeable at lower volumes, less noticeable at louder volumes)..

At this time, I suspect errors in the source material... The recording quality of many DVD's vary.. some are good, some are very poor.. A defective speaker will sound bad on all sources (all music and movie sources)... Our speakers are very revealing of the source material so I suspect what you are hearing is in the source material itself.

Can you post at what time section of the Mask you are hearing this? Perhaps another forum member owns this DVD and can listen to this section as well? If not, let me know the details of the DVD and I will get a copy of one.

In the meantime, do you have a quality set of headphones available so that you can listen to the source material directly (no speakers at all)

Finally, when you hear the crackling sound, can you try to determine whether it is being reproduced by the tweeter or the woofer (at very low volume, listen close with your ear by the tweeter and then by either of the woofers)

Thanks in advance!

[hallgreng]

The time is at 44:47 when Dorian says "youre not going anywhere", the crackle is right when he emphasizes "where".

I have a pair of Grado SR225's and I used those while my A/B loop ran on that 44:47 section: success! Well, success for me and your fine products. Not so much success for The Mask.
You were completely right in that the source material is to blame. If anyone with The Mask DVD (New Line Platinum Edition -nothing special) can verify the cackle at 44:47, I would feel totally secure and would greatly appreciate it.

I am weary of this being the end, though. Although The Great Train Robbery was an older film (one I need to rent again in order to run the headphones test on) and quite likely to have bad audio, Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events is quite new.
Can anyone with this DVD (again, I rented it) verify crackle when the Count Olaf character is walking down the stairs while introducing himself? I will definately rent both movies again to run through the headphones, but the nearest rental place is 100M away, so they will get rented later than sooner :o

Anyway, I feel quite relieved! Thank you all for your help. I feel that had I purchased speakers most anywhere else, I would be cutting my losses and just sending the speakers back. Ascend customer service is some of the best I have ever dealt with, and my fellow budding HT-aphile friends will certainly hear about it.

Thank you again,
Gunnar Hallgren

[davef]

Hi Hallgreng,

Give me a few days and I will obtain the Mask DVD and check it myself... I have come across many DVDs that at certain points there exists audible distortion.. This is not uncommon, especially when the transfer is from a pre-existing soundtrack (analog) to DVD.

Much like your excellent headphones, the speakers you own are very revealing, and what sound they receive is what they reproduce (all the good and the bad).

Many DVDs have both Dolby Digital and DTS soundtracks on them and if you hear distortion on one, you might try the other.

In the meantime, I do recommend keeping those headphones nearby and definitely keep me updated with your testing.

[Jonnyozero3]

The time is at 44:47 when Dorian says "youre not going anywhere", the crackle is right when he emphasizes "where".

I have a pair of Grado SR225's and I used those while my A/B loop ran on that 44:47 section: success! Well, success for me and your fine products. Not so much success for The Mask.
You were completely right in that the source material is to blame. If anyone with The Mask DVD (New Line Platinum Edition -nothing special) can verify the cackle at 44:47, I would feel totally secure and would greatly appreciate it.

I am weary of this being the end, though. Although The Great Train Robbery was an older film (one I need to rent again in order to run the headphones test on) and quite likely to have bad audio, Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events is quite new.
Can anyone with this DVD (again, I rented it) verify crackle when the Count Olaf character is walking down the stairs while introducing himself? I will definately rent both movies again to run through the headphones, but the nearest rental place is 100M away, so they will get rented later than sooner :o

Anyway, I feel quite relieved! Thank you all for your help. I feel that had I purchased speakers most anywhere else, I would be cutting my losses and just sending the speakers back. Ascend customer service is some of the best I have ever dealt with, and my fellow budding HT-aphile friends will certainly hear about it.

Thank you again,
Gunnar Hallgren


Congrats on finding a solution Gunnar :) I just wanted to add that I've run into similar sounds in several TV shows and movies. My favorite TV show, Firefly, can be pretty bad about it. It has worried me several times but I can play music at 90 dB without breaking a sweat so I was always confident it wasn't my CBM-170s. I wish I had read this thread earlier - I could have put that in as my guess. It sounds to me like a recording mic clipping, but I really don't know much about the stuff :)

[hallgreng]

While it is annoying at times, when I have friends over I point out how poor the source audio quality is and they are impressed. Poor sound has its uses :)