anything bad about cbm-170???

[asdf777]

So far, I haven't read a single bad comment about the speakers on any of the websites. There must be some room for improvement, though... Please don't tell me these are the best speakers money can buy. I mean I don't mind paying $300-500 more, especially if I can avoid buying a sub. Which ones would you pick under a 1000 USD?
Thanks.

[curtis]

Nothing is the "best".

For $1000....and pair of CMT-340m's and a good sub of your choice. Actually, listen to the 340's first to see if you require a sub for your music.

[Nicholas Mosher]

If you like neutral speakers there are definetly some better units... but not for the money. ;)

[sensibull]

I agree with Curtis. If you have an extra $300-500, get the 340s. They are a wee bit warmer than the 170s, by which I mean they are a little more forgiving of poorly recorded or older source material. Not to mention the fact that they go lower and louder. At their price point, you're not going to find too many people who can justifiably fault the performance of the 170s.

[asdf777]

See, that's what I'm saying -- nobody says anything bad about ascends and it sounds like you can't do any better... Let me rephrase my question: what are the next best and cheapest speakers after the ascends? :) Maybe it's wrong forum to ask this question, but you guys must be upgrading to something, right?

[curtis]

well yeah...DaveF could make better bass, better mids, and better highs, nicer cabinets....but it would cost some money. I would love to see what he could cook up in the under $1K category.

the 170's have been around for more than 5 years now...and still get comparisons to whatever comes along in that price range...and higher.

[sensibull]

See, that's what I'm saying -- nobody says anything bad about ascends and it sounds like you can't do any better... Let me rephrase my question: what are the next best and cheapest speakers after the ascends? :) Maybe it's wrong forum to ask this question, but you guys must be upgrading to something, right?

Coming to an Ascend forum and first asking its denizens to find fault with their speakers, and then asking for a non-Ascend recommendation is either a very clever form of trolling or some kind weird zen exercise ;-)

Most Ascend owners are practical folk. If I ever upgrade, it will be to a significantly higher price bracket, simply because I believe I cannot do better for a couple hundred dollars more. That's why I went with the Ascends in the first place.

[JeffD2]

See, that's what I'm saying -- nobody says anything bad about ascends and it sounds like you can't do any better... Let me rephrase my question: what are the next best and cheapest speakers after the ascends? :) Maybe it's wrong forum to ask this question, but you guys must be upgrading to something, right?
Well you could do better by spending 1.5 to 5x more for the same or somewhat better performance. It's no coincidence that Ascends are frequently compared to higher priced speakers. I don't think you'll get many replies here as to "the next step up". If you can't find any bad reviews, well....

[asdf777]

I had magnepan MMGs before, read literally hundreds of reviews and comments of how great they were and that you couldn't buy anything better under a 1000 bucks and when they arrived, they weren't as impressive as their reviews and I eventually sent them back. I mean, they were exceptional speakers for jazz and classical music, but sounded worse then my radio when hooked up to a tv or if you played rock-n-roll on them. Besides, they were not the kind of speakers that would make you get up and dance -- kind of bookish and too warm.

Can somebody compare MMGs to ascends? Thanks.

[curtis]

with planar speakers...you either love them...or not.

What speakers have you heard that you like?

Where are you located? Maybe someone in your area will have you over for a listen.

[asdf777]

I'm in the Chicago suburbs, but somehow the idea of going to somebody's home to listen to their speakers doesn't sound too exciting... Besides, it defeats the purpose of buying something over the internet.

In terms what I've heard -- not much -- I can certainly tell a good speaker from a bad one, but it's not my hobby. Or at least, not yet :) I know what I would like to hear, though: the sound should be powerful and clean, with deep and tight bass and the speakers should disappear when I close my eyes.

magnepans were lacking the bass, but most importantly, they didn't have any character and and were like a woman faking an orgasm -- they sounds were exactly right, but there was no passion :)

[BradJudy]

Do CBM-170s have shortcomings? Sure. They don't have great extension without a sub, they are plain black, they don't have the same soundstage as a larger speaker. The sound itself is a personal preference, as with any speaker. Some would consider it a excellent balance and good neutrality, others would consider it a bit analytical or dry.

Obviously they're my pick in their price range, otherwise I wouldn't own them. If I had to pick an upgrade out of what I have heard (without going overboard into $10k speakers) it might be something from Dynaudio. I also liked the VMPS 626R, but it required a lot of tweaking to get right. Neither of these options is under $1k/pr. I haven't heard anything under $1k/pr that I make want to swap out my Ascend/Hsu combo. There are other speakers I would be happy with and there are several I would like to hear that are highly spoken of (ACI, Odyssey, and others come to mind).

I haven't heard the MMGs, so I can't compare.

I'll echo Curtis: Where do you live and what have you heard that you like?

[BradJudy]

Powerful with deep and tight bass for under $1k make me lean toward a setup that includes a subwoofer. There aren't a lot of options for really deep bass for under $1k, although some of the towers do pretty good.

The natural internet-direct comparisons for under $1k would be Onix Rocket RS550s, Axiom M60tis, Aperion (either the 633 tower or a bookshelf/sub combo), Home Theater Direct (level 3 towers or bookshelf/sub combo) and maybe GR Research AV-2s. Again, it's personal preference. I have heard all of these except the Axioms and HTDs (I actually heard the GR AV-1, not AV-2). The Aperion and GRs sounded distinctly different than the Ascends and lots of people love them.

[asdf777]

BradJudy, yes, thanks, I read about the speakers you mentioned too, but trying them all will be about $300 in shipping :(

What about the sub, though. It must be pretty objective as to which sub is good, and which one is not, no? HSU research, SVS, something else? Thanks.

[curtis]

I have heard speakers from every brand that Brad just mentioned.....and I wouldn't trade my Ascend/Hsu combination for any of them...especially for the money....but if I was forced to, I would take the VMPS 626R.

As for the sub, that is a sticky subject. So, at the risk of sounding bias once again, and having heard subs from both SVS and Hsu, I would take Hsu over SVS when it comes to upper bass and punch. Depth and output would go to SVS. So it comes down to prorities, Hsu has plenty of output for me in my room, and upper bass comes into play with music/movies much more often than deep bass...and my Hsu is flat anechoicly to 18-20hz....I am a happy camper.

There are other subwoofer companies as well that cater to different needs and wants. ACI and Adire to name two.

[mattepntr]

A lot of people team up their Ascends with an Hsu sub.
But I've read a lot of folks who also have SVS subs. I
don't think you could go wrong either way.

I have an Hsu VTF-3 MkII and I love it. It kicks with HT,
and really sounds great with my 340 mains for music,
especially multi-channel music. In fact, it blends so well
I can't even tell it's doing anything, until I turn it off.
The 340's put out a surprisingly decent amount of bass
by themselves, but the sound really broadens with a good
sub. Sorry, I just don't have anything bad to say!:p

[yo2tup]

i have my 340's powered by nad integrated amp for stereo listening...and they sound pretty good. may be a bit bright, but it might just be my room. they image fairly well from left to right. its easy to pick out different instruments, but my main complaint is that the imaging doesn't have much depth at all. it doesn't have that spooky holographic effect like more expensive systems. also i like the soundstage to extend past the speakers .....and i dont know if its just my set up or what, but my system doesn't really do that. the soundstage is as big as however far the speakers are placed from each other.

does anyone else notice these downfalls on their acscends during 2ch stereo? or are my components/placement not up to snuff with ascends?

[bikeman]

does anyone else notice these downfalls on their acscends during 2ch stereo? or are my components/placement not up to snuff with ascends?

I doubt it's your components so I'd start by looking at placement and the room itself. Can you give us a diagram?

David

[sensibull]

i like the soundstage to extend past the speakers .....and i dont know if its just my set up or what, but my system doesn't really do that. the soundstage is as big as however far the speakers are placed from each other.

Are there any walls hemming in your speakers (to the L and R)? Have you tried toeing them in and/or moving them farther from the back wall? My room is FAR from ideal, but I get a pretty wide soundstage from my 340s (and I believe horizontal dispersion is supposed to be one of their design strengths) -- certainly beyond the speakers themselves.

FWIW...

[sensibull]

the sound should be powerful and clean
Any of the Ascends will give you that and more...


with deep and tight bass
For that, you'd need a good sub (if you bought Ascends)...


and the speakers should disappear when I close my eyes.
This "effect" varies quite a bit on my setup(s) (one room has 340 mains, the other 170s) and seems to have much more to do with the recording quality than the speakers themselves. In any case, and for better or worse, the Ascends never have a problem giving center stage to the music.


magnepans were lacking the bass, but most importantly, they didn't have any character
At the risk of sending you to the other camp(s) if you're looking for an identifiable "character" in a speaker, then Ascends are probably not for you. They basically give you back whatever you put in to them. They don't color the music, or emphasize any particular range. They can be brutally honest at times -- they won't fake orgasms, but they might get out of bed and tell you to your face that what you're doing simply isn't turning them on ;-)

[Nicholas Mosher]

http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/roflmao.gifhttp://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/agree.gif

[Nicholas Mosher]

I like the Paradigm Signature S2's and a few of the Thiel speakers, but they are 5x-10x the cost of a pair of 170s. I could never justify that much extra cash for the percentage gain in sound I would get. Perhaps if I see a used set of 5 monitors from either company at less than $2k I would spring, but I have as much of a chance in finding a deal like this as I do of winning the lottery (in which case I would spring for 'em... :D).

Bottom line, to my ears the 170's have the best performance/value, and it will take something pretty impressive to make me upgrade.

[bikeman]

They can be brutally honest at times -- they won't fake orgasms, but they might get out of bed and tell you to your face that what you're doing simply isn't turning them on ;-)

Funniest post I've seen in some time. Truth dosen't always have to be serious. :cool:

David

[Quinn]

I'm dying! That is spot on in addition to hilarious.

[BradJudy]

I don't think you can go wrong with either Hsu or SVS (I own a Hsu and have heard SVSs on a couple occassions). I also think the Onix UFW-10 is good, but I haven't heard the ULW-10 or UFW-12 yet (I'll hear the UFW-12 next weekend).

If you're looking at internet direct companies, you don't want to pay shipping to hear multiple ones or go over to houses to hear them, and you don't have some reference speakers that you like to compare against, then you're going to have to pick one and run with it.

Most of the internet direct companies have good customer service and good return policies, so if you did pick one and really didn't like it, it should be easy to return it.

[curtis]

They can be brutally honest at times -- they won't fake orgasms, but they might get out of bed and tell you to your face that what you're doing simply isn't turning them on ;-)

LOL!!

Should probably copyright that one.

[demunb]

The problem with judging speakers is that it's so subjective. I love my Ascends. I also love my Dynaudios. I've heard lots of speakers that I like and could be happy owning. I can't say that if you like the Ascends the next logical upgrade would be brand X. Each speaker has a unique sound that is not necessarily better or worse, just different. If you like the sound of Ascends then you'll be happy with what you get for your money, if you don't like the sound then it doesn't matter how much they cost.

You really owe it to yourself to audition as many speakers as you can to find out which ones are right for you. Use the forums to find Internet Direct brand owners (most of us are eager to show off our systems) to listen to speakers. Go to every local dealer to audition as many B&M brands as you can. Eventually you will find a speaker that's right for you. Only you can decide if Brand X is worth more $$$ than another Brand Y.

As far as subs go, I've got an SVS that I love. If I would have bought my Ascends first I probably would have gone with an HSU because they are so well recommended here. The differences between subs are more subtle than the differences between speaker brands, but there are differences. I don't think you can go wrong with either HSU or SVS, but again- your ears are the best judge so look for owners in your area to audition for yourself.

[Jonnyozero3]

Wow, a funny AND informative thread :)

Regarding character - I think a lot of the character in the the Ascends lies in their ability to disappear. You don't have to close your eyes to make them invisible. I trick people by asking them "how many speakers are playing" - some say the front three, and some even say its doing surround sound (they;re not critical listeners, but its fun). Each time I'm just playing a CD or MP3 in 2ch mode with just the 170s. When you have them set up right, they image like nobody's business. I think their accuracy is another fantastic trait - they reveal everything in a recording. That is excellent in my mind. Play a good recording on them and you won't have to worry about the speakers orgasming; you'll be too busy cleaning yourself up.

As far as comparisons go, I listen to a pair of super expensive Wilsons a few weeks ago at a high end shop powered by a $40,000 CD stack, I think Parasound Amps among other things (and a pair of $30,000 cables :rolleyes: ).

I think they may have been these: http://www.wilsonaudio.com/products/x1/index.html

Anyhow, needless to say the sound was incredible. I listened for about 30 mins and I loved it. I'm not going to say the CBM-170s could compare with uber-Wilsons, BUT, want I want to say is that I noticed they shared some traits in common - especially that of imaging. I left feeling a little overwhelmed with how good the Wilsons sounded, but later when I listened to my CBM-170s I was very, very happy with what I get for 0.38% of the cost ;)

One of my buddies who is also into this sort of thing has a pair of Klipsch RF-7s (those are what, over $1500 a pair?). He's been over several times to critically audition the 170s, and many more times just for TV, Movies, Xbox, etc. He can't say enough about how much he loves the Ascend sound - esp the imaging. He still loves his Klipsch's for rock music (very forward), but he has asked me four times now when Ascend is coming out with floorstanders :) He's considering building another system around Ascends, and that's coming from someone with over $1,000 taste in speakers.

Anyhow, I'm not sure I'm helping much, but I wanted to add some experiences. I think the gist of this is that the step up to something better is too far to go for most of us. I still haven't heard anything under $1,000 that I would buy instead of 170s, and I have heard PLENTY of stuff up into the $5,000 range that I felt left a lot to be desired (that hi-end shop again).

I think your best bets for other options have been pretty well covered so far in this thread, I can't think of many others - maybe Monitor Audio? Anyhow, I do hope you give the Ascends a listen as one of your finalists...and don't forget, if you have some bucks to spare go for one of the nice custom auto-grade finishs - it'll make them look awesome; I wish I did it.

[bikeman]

Nice diagram. What's the distance from the speakers to the couch (listening position), couch to the back wall and between the speakers? How far forward are the speakers from the TV/AV shelf?

David

[asdf777]

Okay, thank you all for the info. It's been very helpful and I actually ordered the speakers and a HSU sub.

[Eddie]

ASDF,

I'm a little late coming to this thread, and it's kind of moot now that you've already ordered, but recently I had a chance to A/B the CBM-170s against my 340s...and surprisingly, preferred the 170s!

If you want the details go here:

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/1/151678.html

Anyways I think you'll be very happy with your purchase, congrats!

[pegleg]

I'd say the 170s had 2 problems for me, if you can call them that:
1. They needed a subwoofer for DVDs and for organ music
2. On top of bookcases, the tended to have a distinct "sweetspot".

In contrast, the 340s, also on those bookcases, do NOT have a sweetspot--the whole room seems to be equally good (Dave said they had better horizontal dispersion, I believe).
Also, I'm not sure I really need a subwoofer with the 340s: haven't found anything really requiring it yet, even the organ music.

Pegleg

[bikeman]

Also, I'm not sure I really need a subwoofer with the 340s: haven't found anything really requiring it yet, even the organ music.
Pegleg

You may not "need a subwoofer" but I'll bet Hsu 2 or 3 would give you a greater appreciation of your organ music. The 340's are certainly no slouch all by themselves but when we get down to 35 - 45hz, there is a very noticeable difference when a quality sub is added.

David