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TripDaddy
05-23-2005, 09:12 AM
Anyone here bought B-Stock Ascends? Happy with them? How bad were the "flaws".

Thanks!

TripDaddy

Lee Bailey
05-23-2005, 10:18 AM
All 5 of my speakers and the TP-24 stands I purchased were B-Stock. I've not really been able to detect any defects. Apparently, they'll show up under a flourescent light. :eek:

shane55
05-23-2005, 10:31 AM
My 340 mains are B-stock and there is one tiny mark at the bottom/front of one of them. Virtually invisible.:D

There is no sonic difference in the B-stocks. That is a definite.

cheers

shane

Cliff_L
05-23-2005, 03:26 PM
I ordered a B-stock CBM-170 to complete my surrounds and as far as I can tell, it looks brand new. They must have some really rigorous standards that these speakers have to meet, because I couldn't see a single thing wrong!

TripDaddy
05-23-2005, 03:29 PM
Well, ya'll talked me into it. I just order my new HT setup - 340s across the fronts and 2 pairs of HTM200s for the surrounds... all B-Stock! Now, the wait begins!!

Thanks for the advice!

shane55
05-23-2005, 03:40 PM
Nicely done!:D
Give us a report when they get in.

cheers!

shane

Zyzzyva100
05-23-2005, 04:49 PM
How do you find out about the B-stock? I would certainly be interested being the poor college student that I am. Even if its only for the speaker stands or whatnot.

curtis
05-23-2005, 04:57 PM
You need to call and ask.

jermy4
05-23-2005, 06:52 PM
My 170s are b-stocks and I still can't find anything wrong with them.

Zyzzyva100
05-23-2005, 07:55 PM
For those who have the B-stock, did you have to call for awhile to find them? Or did you just get lucky. I'm just curious because a few saved bucks goes a long way (especially for food, which I will be lacking when I buy these, good thing I'm on a diet)

I wouldn't think they would have a lot of B-stock, but as long as the electronics are ok, I sure know I wouldn't mind a little scratch or two.

shane55
05-23-2005, 11:23 PM
I called only once and asked about them. They happened to have a pair of 340's available. Luck, I guess. ;)

Sometimes they have some... sometimes not. Timing is everything.

Good luck.

jermy4
05-24-2005, 03:49 AM
I emailed them and they happened to have what I wanted right away too.

bikeman
05-24-2005, 07:14 AM
I emailed them and they happened to have what I wanted right away too.

I think because it's not posted on the website (at least I haven't found it), the relatively few who inquire have gotten what they wanted. If Ascend ever uses the Axiom or AV123 b-stock sales model, things would be dramatically different in a hurry.

David

TripDaddy
06-07-2005, 01:16 PM
Just a quick note to say that the B-stock that Ascend sells is laughable!! Only in the sense that this is anyone elses A stock. They are perfect it everyway. I have seen a couple of smudges on the speakers that I guess must be the "blemish" but I am not sure. Seriously. If you can get B stock, buy it. It is A quality all the way. And mind you that I am rediculously picky about this kind of stuff.

Now if my Marantz reciever will ever get here I will hook them up! :mad:

TripDaddy
:) :) :)

dpristin
06-07-2005, 01:44 PM
I got a B-stock 5.1 system a week ago. I communicated via e-mail and by phone with James from Ascend and he told me that normally they can ship the entire package within 2 weeks. It was fine with me. They shipped everything the very next day. There are a couple of cosmetic defects (small blemishes) that are virtually invisible from 2 feet – nothing really to complain about. Unbelievable value.

azanon
06-07-2005, 02:20 PM
Can someone clarify here?; I'm presuming the speakers are "B-Stock" because they are used (returned speakers), correct?, not because of the condition they are in. If that's the case, then their condition is besides the point isn't it? I would hope that most returned speakers were kept in top condition anyway (if i were Ascend), so that's not necessarily surprising to me. I'd expect that.

If i'm wrong in my assumption and these are actual manufacturing defects, and they're occurring often enough to warrant a B-stock line, I cant say that's entirely encouraging to hear as an Ascend owner.

Azanon

shane55
06-07-2005, 02:34 PM
No.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason there is no B-stock listed on the site is because it is not a common occurrance to have these items.
They are not returned items. Sometimes in manufacturing blemishes happen. No sonic difference, not used, just small and in my case (340's, imperceptable) miniscule errors in finishing.

The components inside the cases are not effected in any way as I believe they are added after the boxes are manufactured. They still go through all the rigid testing... again. I believe this to be the case.

When they occur, the good folks like James look into availability and offer them up for a discounted price. They can not be guaranteed to exist at any given time because these 'mistakes' are rare. When they happen, they are good for you and me.

cheers

shane

edit...
BTW. This is a great thing. Really. I can not tell you how pleased I am to have these 340's in my house. I thank James and David F and all associated with this great company for their great work. Brilliant speakers.

dpristin
06-07-2005, 02:45 PM
I think Shane is absolutely right. When I talked to James he explained me that availability of the B-stock speakers depends on the availability of the cabinets. They are not refurbished but newly assembled in the slightly blemished cabinets and carry the full warranty.

curtis
06-07-2005, 02:47 PM
B-stock is anything that can not be sold as new. They may have cosmetic blemishes, but they all sound as good as new, and have the same warranty.

I would also imagine that a cabinet found with a cosmetic defect before drivers and crossovers are installed is flagged and used for b-stock.
Since they are all tested before being shipped to the customer, they do not leave Ascend with any defects other than cosmetic.

There is usually a wait list for b-stock, so I doubt it happens often.

edit: I see I was late to the party with my post. Also, I will add, that in the 2 plus years that I have participating on the boards, I think I have read of 3 pairs of 170's being returned, and one of them was going to be returned regardless, the customer just wanted to experience the 170's. I have yet to read about a 340m being returned....I think.

davef
06-07-2005, 05:02 PM
Hi Guys...

Just thought I would add to this discussion and clarify things regarding B-stock...

Our daily production routine is as follows...

Raw (empty) cabinets are unboxed, inspected, and placed on the production line. Components are then installed into the cabinet (woofers, tweeters, labels, logos, stuffing etc.)... The speaker is then fully tested. A tested and approved speaker is then cleaned, packaged, and set aside for shipping.

B-stock designation of a cabinet will occur in two places.. A cosmetic defect is noticed when a cabinet is unpackaged, inspected and placed on the production line. A sticker is then applied identifying the cabinet as B-stock and the exact same procedure as A-stock cabinets is followed (assembly, testing, cleaning then packaging)... Please note, the exact same testing methodology and tolerances are used whether the speaker is A-stock or B-stock.

Some units might slip by first inspection and others might get slightly scuffed up during production. These are then tagged as B-stock after the cabinet is cleaned and prepped for packaging.

There is absolutely no difference between the components in an A-stock cabinet or a B-stock cabinet...

Regarding returns... Yes, of course we get returned speakers for a variety of reasons. Many times these speakers are set aside for engineering purposes, reviews, demos / auditions etc. etc. Some returns (and only if the cabinets are in excellent condition) are placed on the production line for re-conditioning. We then install all new drivers, test, clean and package etc. These are sold as B-stock, even though the cabinets might be perfect and they have new components installed.


If i'm wrong in my assumption and these are actual manufacturing defects, and they're occurring often enough to warrant a B-stock line, I cant say that's entirely encouraging to hear as an Ascend owner.

Again, the only difference between B-stock and A-stock is cosmetics. Our reject rate on cabinets varies per container shipment.. Sometimes we will receive a thousand perfect cabinets, other shipments we will reject as many as 5%. Our overall cabinet reject rate and B-stock quantities have stayed about the same over the years.

Guys.. the reason you are hearing so much about B-stock, is simply because it is now after all these years, being publicly discussed. I have never advertised B-stock and I have only offered it to people who have specifically asked for discounted goods. Also, please remember that we have just moved locations and in the process, sorted through literally a few tons of cabinets that have been sitting around for a while. Some of these were built up as B-stock, others were disposed of. This allowed us to "clean up" and fulfill many of the B-stock orders.

Right now, we have 1pr of B-stock HTM-200 available.. That's all of it and we now have a rather large backorder for customers requesting B-stock. With normal production volumes, we come across a pair of B-stock cabinets every 1-2 weeks.

The honest truth why I don’t advertise B-stock on our site is simply because there is just not that much of it. Sometimes I use whatever B-stock cabinets are available for engineering purposes…

Hope this helps clear things up a bit :)

azanon
06-07-2005, 05:40 PM
David,

Interesting info, and I appreciate the insight. OK well it does sound like a sort of a rare thing which is good. Its nice to know a company has good QC/QA, but its also nice to know that most of the time, they're not actually needed (because of the quality of both the product and the manufacturing/assembling phase).

Azanon

BradJudy
06-07-2005, 05:57 PM
Components are then installed into the cabinet (woofers, tweeters, labels, logos, stuffing etc.)..

Do you guys put crossovers in these things too? :D Sorry, I had to say it.

As many here know, David is a bit of a perfectionist, so I don't doubt that his quality holds in b-stock. I don't think he would put his name on anything he wasn't happy to own himself. I'm always a bit surprised that so many people clamor for b-stock, but I suppose a lot of people want a 'deal' even if regular price is an excellent value.

davef
06-07-2005, 06:15 PM
Do you guys put crossovers in these things too? :D Sorry, I had to say it.

Hey trouble maker, well last time I checked I believe our speakers do ship with crossovers (at least they better be ;) )


As many here know, David is a bit of a perfectionist, so I don't doubt that his quality holds in b-stock. I don't think he would put his name on anything he wasn't happy to own himself. I'm always a bit surprised that so many people clamor for b-stock, but I suppose a lot of people want a 'deal' even if regular price is an excellent value.

Perhaps too much of perfectionist with my product, such that I often find myself inspecting goods (which is not an efficient use of my time). Picture me out back by the production line with a sheet of round red Avery labels, visually inspecting a cabinet and (much to the annoyance of the person who just previously inspected the cabinet) rejecting it for something that it really should not be rejected for?

Can anyone really wonder why I don't yet offer a real wood veneer finish :rolleyes:

Oh how my wife wishes I would bring just a smidgeon of the work related perfectionism back to my home........ :o