Floorstanding loudspeakers?

[GDV]

Is Ascend working on releasing a floorstanding loudspeaker? If so, does anyone have an idea of when it will be available?

Thanks.

GDV

[BradJudy]

Good luck getting DaveF to let slip on anything he's working on - he plays it close to the chest until things are ready to roll. I also expect that any projects might be on the back burner with the arrival of a new baby.

[bikeman]

Is Ascend working on releasing a floorstanding loudspeaker? If so, does anyone have an idea of when it will be available?Thanks.GDV

The SE's were just introduced. Based on past performance, the 3nd quarter of 2008 will be the earliest a completely new design will be available. I'd bet on a floorstander but I'd also bet I'm wrong. Look for an updated 200 sometime before that. This is all mindless speculation on my part.

David

[Quinn]

Good luck getting DaveF to let slip on anything he's working on - he plays it close to the chest until things are ready to roll. I also expect that any projects might be on the back burner with the arrival of a new baby.

No kidding! I think he stunned many long time Ascend fans last fall by announcing the SEs six weeks before it was ready to ship. Before that Ascend hadn't announced anything until it was ready to ship.

[GaryB]

Not that I don't have more pressing issues but I have thought about this quite a lot over the last little while. Here are my fairly detailed suggestions for my dream Ascend compact full tower (CFT?), which I would buy in a minute, and I suspect might find favor with many typical Ascend customers:

1. Ported cabinet 7.5" wide (same as CMT-340), 12" deep, on plinth similar to that of TP-24 stand, for a total height no more than 40". Assuming the same sensitivity as the CMT-340, the F3 for this enclosure size should be in the 38 Hz range, or ~10 Hz deeper than the CMT-340.

2. 3-way: 2 x 6-1/2" polygel woofers, 4" polygel midrange (I believe Audax does make one, which could be customized for this application, as all DaveF's drivers are), SEAS tweeter from CBM-170 SE. TMWW orientation, from top to bottom. Approximate crossover points @ 500 & 2500 Hz. I chose the 170's tweeter rather than the 340's for its smaller faceplate. The higher crossover allowed by the 4" midrange should make the 340's tweeter unnecessary, but I stand to be corrected on this point, of course.

Just off the top of my head, I might hope that these could be offered for $800/pr. in standard finish, or only $132 more than the CMT-340s with TP-24 stands. Even at $900, I think there might be great interest in such an addition to the line. I suspect, though, that a price much over $900/pr. would negatively impact saleability.

BTW, assuming use of the 170's tweeter, it occurs to me that the same 4 drivers (with similar crossovers) would fit perfectly in the current CMT-340 SEC's cabinet, simply by slightly increasing the separation of the woofers on the existing baffle and installing the midrange and tweeter between the woofers, in the preferred vertical orientation. If such a 3-way dedicated center channel (DCC?) speaker, with EXBAC, could be offered for $400-$450 in standard finish, sign me up!

Yes, yes, I know things aren't quite so simple and straightforward, but the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and wouldn't it be great to see what Dave could do with these designs? It's been a year since the SEs were introduced... how about a little excitement around here again?

[Quinn]

The drivers in the SE are propriety and no longer made by Audax.

The tweeter size of the 340 is in relation to the cabinet volume.

The SEAS tweeters allows for a much lower x-over than 2500Hz and shifting that range to the tweeter is a part of where the 340SE bass improvement came from. Meaning that I don't think unloading what is left of the range you're suggesting is going to offer enough improvement for the cost.

Adding and integrating a 2nd x-over is expensive to do right.

The present 340SE could be tweaked to get down around 40Hz the trade off would be in sensitivity. The 340SE would end up around 85-86dB and need ~4 times the power to reach the same volume as the present design. Dave's goal is affordable high end sound. Making this change would require more money spend on quality amplification.

Ascend to this point has a new product about every 2 years.

As for the suggestion of W-TM-W center you can read Dave's comments on the design trades offs of this arrangement here- http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...7&postcount=10

[GaryB]

In general and also in specific response to some of Quinn's arguments, I would offer the following:

1. There appears to be genuine interest in an Ascend floorstander. IMO, such a speaker should offer real value and real advantages over Ascend's existing designs. It would necessarily cost more and would not supplant existing models.

2. A well-designed 3-way can offer significant advantages in bass extension/output over a well-designed 2-way, without compromising the critical midrange frequencies. In fact, the midrange performance would likely exceed existing designs. The proposed tower model does not sacrifice sensitivity to achieve these gains. IMO, the proposed design would be a very authoritative performer on most music sans sub, but would still benefit from the use of a sub, especially for home theater.

3. The proposed models make use of several already-developed Ascend assets (i.e. 6-1/2" woofer, SEAS tweeter). While not the case for the proposed new center, most buyers of the floorstander would partially recover the added costs of the new midrange and more complex crossover by not having to purchase stands.

4. The fact that the SEAS tweeters allow a lower crossover point than that required by the proposed new models is irrelevant. The design work has already been done and the sonic advantages of these tweeters would still be fully realized in the new models. I would be happy to allow the designer to choose the optimum crossover points.

5. I am quite familiar with the referenced post regarding W-TM-W centers. A well-designed W-TM-W center channel speaker, using equivalent woofers, will cost more than a well-designed W-T-W center and will have inferior vertical dispersion, which most of us already address by angling the center up or down toward the listening area. A well-designed W-TM-W center will have advantages in all other respects, but especially with regard to horizontal dispersion. I see nothing in Dave's post to refute these facts. Those who don't need the improved horizontal dispersion, or are unwilling to pay the price for the other (likely subtle) advantages, could simply opt for the current W-T-W model.

All the above is moot, of course, if my price predictions are way off, if DaveF has other plans or is unwilling, with his well-known new commitments, to expend the considerable time/effort to do these new models justice... and we all know that he would do them justice. One can only hope...

[curtis]

If Dave were to take on such a product, I think it is safe to say that it would not stray from the sound quality that we owners are used to.

[Quinn]

Typical 3-way speakers are designed so that the midrange driver shares the same cabinet volume as the woofer. Big problems here…. As we all know, the inside of a speaker cabinet is subjected to tremendous pressure changes. When a small midrange woofer is sharing the same air space as a larger woofer (or worse, 2 woofers), the midrange driver will modulate with the pressure changes caused by the two bass woofers. We have all seen what happens in a dual woofer design; manually pushing one woofer inward will force the other outward etc. When the small midrange driver is trying to reproduce its signal, the larger woofers will actually cause unwanted compliance changes, thus producing high levels of intermodulation distortion. This is easily measurable and audible, regardless of where the listener is seated.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...7&postcount=10

BTW- You can count me as someone who wants an Ascend full range speaker.

[bikeman]

BTW- You can count me as someone who wants an Ascend full range speaker.

Me three.

David