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Thread: Alternative to Ryhmik

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    169

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by RythmikAudio View Post
    If you ask Jim what he listens to, his reply has always been the unit he currently reviews. So for Jim, the definition of "owning" a sub is different from listening to it every day. My customers often ask me which model do I have in my system. My answer is similar to Jim: the one that I'd like to get long term evaluation of the sound characteristics.

    BTW, we do have a plan to introduce F18HP. It is not going to have the same output as S1, but we can offer all 3 different finishes. The price will be $200 more expensive than F15HP. The enclosure will be heavily braced.
    Hi Brian

    Any chance if we can see Rythmik subs in "standard veneers" other than the current 3 color choices you offer?

    Thanks
    Ron

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    101

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    ^^

    My experice with veneering options is not good when I tried that. At that time, one local carpenter wanted to get jobs like that. Customers then began to send me his decor or existing speakers and asked me to match. But I ended up nipping the bud. My conclusions are: 1) no matter what I offer, there are still customers not happy with my offering and 2) Companies like SALK can do a much better job becasuse Jim also sells front speakers.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Stouffville,Ont..
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    538

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by RythmikAudio View Post
    ^^

    My experice with veneering options is not good when I tried that. At that time, one local carpenter wanted to get jobs like that. Customers then began to send me his decor or existing speakers and asked me to match. But I ended up nipping the bud. My conclusions are: 1) no matter what I offer, there are still customers not happy with my offering and 2) Companies like SALK can do a much better job becasuse Jim also sells front speakers.

    Welcomed news on a potential new f18hp. My understand there were no plans for a sealed 18" until the vented models hit the ground? Another take on offering veneers options...it really only effects(increases) the purchase price and not the resale price...as I found out with my last sub....thou it made it easier to sell....fwiw.

    Why do you offer so many different driver configuration + options... would it also not make more business sense to limit the drivers and thus further reducing all these different cabinets and likely operational costs associated with production from your viewpoint?
    Speakers 5.1.2: TitanTowers v2 & STC(RAAL v2), MA CP-WT&CT260
    Sub: Funk Audio 18.0 SantosRW

    Source: Denon X3800H, Oppo BDP 103D, UBK-90 4K & LG B9 65"
    Office 2.0: Philharmonic True Mini(coming-soon), Fosi TB10D via Wiim mini.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    101

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    ^^^

    I have a background in computer industry. I did IC design before. You may wonder why there are so many different options even for the same notebook model, such as the size of RAM, graphic chips, CPU speed, i3 vs i5 vs i7, not to mention how many different series are there. The key is how to make the design modular. In short, that is also how we do it. The trick is we found a way to make it managable. We borrow ideas from other industries.
    Last edited by RythmikAudio; 11-30-2016 at 09:05 AM.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by RythmikAudio View Post
    ^^

    My experice with veneering options is not good when I tried that. At that time, one local carpenter wanted to get jobs like that. Customers then began to send me his decor or existing speakers and asked me to match. But I ended up nipping the bud. My conclusions are: 1) no matter what I offer, there are still customers not happy with my offering and 2) Companies like SALK can do a much better job becasuse Jim also sells front speakers.
    Thanks Brian. Fair enough. Your subs are so amazing to listen to that this small nitpick is easy to ignore. Besides as Billyp mentions the veneer options won't hold their retail value for the price paid for the veneer.

    Is it too early to expect the dimensions for F18HP and any reason why it can't play louder than the competition? How does it compare to F25?

    Thanks
    Ron

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    101

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by rsmt2000 View Post
    Thanks Brian. Fair enough. Your subs are so amazing to listen to that this small nitpick is easy to ignore. Besides as Billyp mentions the veneer options won't hold their retail value for the price paid for the veneer.

    Is it too early to expect the dimensions for F18HP and any reason why it can't play louder than the competition? How does it compare to F25?

    Thanks
    Ron
    When I design the drivers, I'd like to use low voice coil inductance. It is to keep the cone inertia low. So in short, there are design considerations. The driver used in JTR is very impressive. But it comes with compromises. To support the longer excursion, the spider needs to be very tight (two spiders maybe) Tighter spider results in more spider memory effect and also makes it stiffer (more power to move the cone). I won't go into other boring details. F18HP will be 20.5" tall and wide and 21" deep. For higher output, F28HP is on the table. Our amp wattage is about 900WRMS. The JTR is 2400WRMS. So single F18HP has about 3db less output than single S1. But single F18HP is less expensive than one S1. We cannot win on all fronts. Otherwise, we all end up with the same sub. Each company has its own selling points. Output wise, F18HP is 1 db to 1.5db less than F25.
    Last edited by RythmikAudio; 11-30-2016 at 11:09 AM.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    455

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by RythmikAudio View Post
    When I design the drivers, I'd like to use low voice coil inductance. It is to keep the cone inertia low. So in short, there are design considerations. The driver used in JTR is very impressive. But it comes with compromises. To support the longer excursion, the spider needs to be very tight (two spiders maybe) Tighter spider results in more spider memory effect and also makes it stiffer (more power to move the cone). I won't go into other boring details. F18HP will be 20.5" tall and wide and 21" deep. For higher output, F28HP is on the table. Our amp wattage is about 900WRMS. The JTR is 2400WRMS. So single F18HP has about 3db less output than single S1. But single F18HP is less expensive than one S1. We cannot win on all fronts. Otherwise, we all end up with the same sub. Each company has its own selling points. Output wise, F18HP is 1 db to 1.5db less than F25.
    I have a question then. This seems like the F18HP would have close to the output of a FVX15 at about 20 Hz, according to the output chart on your webpage. We would expect the advantage of the F18HP to be that it should have a more gradual rolloff below 20 Hz to where maybe there is more output from there and below than on the FVX15. Above 20 Hz the two won't be too far off in output from one another, but the FVX15 is a ported design and since it is above the tuning port it might have a bit of an advantage above 20 Hz. If we are not not pushing either subwoofer close to the output limits, then we can probably have a pretty similar frequency response of one vs. the other.

    Here is my question. If you adjust the Q to 1.1 on both subs will there be much of a difference in what you hear? If you adjust them both to 0.5, will you be able to hear a difference between the two? Is it possible to adjust the knobs and dials on the back to where you would not be able to distinguish easily between the two?

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    57

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    I own an F15HP and some Raal towers and I'm very excited to hear about the F18HP as i've been admiring the engineering on the funk and jtr but they were a little out of my budget and one is gorgeous and the other is less attractive imho. Looking at the databass measurement of the s2, if you knock 6db off for an s1 approximately it is pretty amazing numbers for impulse reponse, decay, and output/distortion. The only other drivers that come close are diy like the tc sounds 18..and of course that rockford fosgate 19 is $tunning.

    However, I think the proposed f18hp rythmik size is perfect and the oak is a good compromise in looks and cost. Question on the new design, is it possible to accommodate the freq response on the line in input to extend flat to 120hz and/or allow LFE input phase and crossover adjustment? I never understood the 90hz limit. Nice to have would be 12/24 dB octave low and high pass crossover choice on the variable adj and possibly an additional rumble filter an octave lower than the current like 10 - 14hz. They could be a slight competitive edge in addition to the current servo options that we all love. I'd really be blown out of my seat if i didn't have to get up to adjust everything and it could be done remotely.. but I don't want to get too needy. It sounds like a win already.
    Last edited by eyecatcher; 12-07-2016 at 04:30 PM.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by N Boros View Post
    I have a question then. This seems like the F18HP would have close to the output of a FVX15 at about 20 Hz, according to the output chart on your webpage. We would expect the advantage of the F18HP to be that it should have a more gradual rolloff below 20 Hz to where maybe there is more output from there and below than on the FVX15. Above 20 Hz the two won't be too far off in output from one another, but the FVX15 is a ported design and since it is above the tuning port it might have a bit of an advantage above 20 Hz. If we are not not pushing either subwoofer close to the output limits, then we can probably have a pretty similar frequency response of one vs. the other.

    Here is my question. If you adjust the Q to 1.1 on both subs will there be much of a difference in what you hear? If you adjust them both to 0.5, will you be able to hear a difference between the two? Is it possible to adjust the knobs and dials on the back to where you would not be able to distinguish easily between the two?
    The Q value of sealed subs and ported subs are different. This is mainly becasue a sealed sub has only 2nd order roll off and a ported sub has a 4th order roll-off. So it can never do an apple to apple comparison. For some customers, the extra ringing from the ported subwoofers are actually better. But we still think our ported subs are better than non-servo ported subs in terms of articulation, contrast, and dynamics.
    Here is the frequency response of FV18 at 12hz low damping. We design it so that it has the max flatness at low damping.
    FV18P.jpg

    The following is the sealed version F18HP and you notice that it is tilted up a bit. That is by design. In sealed subs, we can allow the Q value to be higher while maintaining similar time domain ringing characteristics.

    12low1.jpg

    The high damping has smaller phase shift (70 degrees less at 10hz) and a more gradual roll-off.
    12high.jpg

    What is interesting is you can compare that with the F12 response at 14hz high damping that we have on web. In terms of phase shift, it is so amazingly close below 20hz. BTW, there is another trade secret that is not commonly discussed. Microphose also has phase shift which means the actual phase shift from these sealed subs are a bit smaller. On the mic I use, the phase shift is 18 degrees and 45 degrees at 20hz and 10hz, respectively.

    The way to read phase response is to follow the blue line. The scale of phase is on the right. The very top is +180 degrees and the very bottom is -180 degrees. Each division is 45 degrees. Phase is like clock, once you go out of the chart, the phase rotates to the other side of the chart.
    f12.jpg


    Back to F18HP sealed sub. Here is the overlay of all 3 damping setting on F18HP. The damping provides the bass contouring in a very subtle way. When the equipment and setup is good, one can hear the difference these damping settings make. If he cannot, don't lose hope. It can be equipement or it can be room related. But hopefully one day in the future he can hear the difference.

    12all.jpg
    Last edited by RythmikAudio; 12-12-2016 at 06:22 AM.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    455

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by RythmikAudio View Post
    Back to F18HP sealed sub. Here is the overlay of all 3 damping setting on F18HP. The damping provides the bass contouring in a very subtle way. When the equipment and setup is good, one can hear the difference these damping settings make. If he cannot, don't lose hope. It can be equipement or it can be room related. But hopefully one day in the future he can hear the difference.
    Thank you for the detailed explanation. This helps a lot. Okay, so the high damping setting on your subs are going to be the most accurate in terms of phase. The sealed subs can be more accurate than the ported subs in this regard. What does the more accurate phase setting give you in terms of sound quality? Are you able to get more detail out of the same piece of music? Does it allow a more accurate location of where the bass is supposed to be located in the room (I have no idea, I'm just thinking about how phase is important in your main speakers in being able to locate sounds in three dimensional space, sometimes even behind you. But, with a subwoofer the signal is in mono so I don't think that this makes sense)?

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