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Thread: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Just outside Pearland, TX
    Posts
    301

    Default Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    Fascinating.

    I guess it's not just as simple as "throw it in the Klippel and that will tell us everything there is to know about the speaker." The ASR fanboys' heads are going to explode.

    The really important question, though, is when can we get our V2 upgrades?

    I'm kidding, that's not the important question. Seriously, Dave, thank you for your endless dedication. Your love for what you do comes through and always makes me happy that I'm an Ascend customer. Don't get me wrong—having great speakers is the main thing that makes me happy to be an Ascend customer, but this is a terrific bonus. Every time there's a four-figure charge on my credit card from Ascend, I think "this is for Dave and Dina, who DEFINITELY deserve it."
    Luna Duo V2 LR, Titan Horizon V2, and Rythmik L22 & L12 in HT, Sierra-LXs in study, S-2EXs and Duo V2 C in bedroom, S-1 NrTs in dining room, S-1s at work, HTM-200s in kitchen. Brother owns CMT-340s and dad has a pair of CBM-170s.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by vkottas View Post
    +1 for me on Duo v2 availability list! (long term Sierra v2 owner, recently picked up 4 HTM-200SEs for surrounds for new basement HT setup)

    This has been quite a ride. I've been saddened by the cynicism about the measurements, awed and inspired by Dave's reactions in word and deed.

    It amazes me in these kind of niche "hobbyist" markets (my other personal one being hobby boardgames) when people's first thoughts jump to cynical assumptions when something isn't quite right. The people working in this kind of industry (especially at Dave's scale) are so clearly driven by the love of the thing and could be making more money for the same or less effort doing something else.

    Thanks for all the dedication and, as others have said, the transparency - it's fascinating to have a window into all of this.

    -vas
    Hi Vas,

    Thanks for your nice comments, they are greatly appreciated.

    Once production on the V2 crossovers is completed and they are in transit to us, I will post an update together with a link for pre-ordering. We hope to have them by the holidays but the way things are these days, who knows
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Just outside Pearland, TX
    Posts
    301

    Default Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Once production on the V2 crossovers is completed and they are in transit to us, I will post an update together with a link for pre-ordering.
    takemymoney.jpg

    All in good fun.
    Luna Duo V2 LR, Titan Horizon V2, and Rythmik L22 & L12 in HT, Sierra-LXs in study, S-2EXs and Duo V2 C in bedroom, S-1 NrTs in dining room, S-1s at work, HTM-200s in kitchen. Brother owns CMT-340s and dad has a pair of CBM-170s.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    S.E. La. - USA
    Posts
    312

    Exclamation Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Thanks all. This is really an interesting study, well - at least to me

    I have spent way too much time and money on this and I don't foresee us recouping the cost of our Klippel NFS purchase (anytime soon). However, from the standpoint of what I do, of what I have been doing since around 1987 or so, it was well worth it.
    Dave,

    No wonder your audio speaker systems are superb performers amongst the maze of global accurate transducer products! Even without NFS, the MLSSA or the ASR measurement systems (all great tools...when understood and used appropriately), your passion, dedication and persistence to create the best sound reproducers in this industry is easily recognizable through the final test of ownership success...Listening..."Hearing Is Believing"!!!

    Ted
    Sierra RAAL V2 Towers, Axiom EP 500 Sub, Morrow SP7 Grand Reference Speaker Cables, Phillips CD880 XLR Balanced Variable Line Output to Orchard Audio Strakrimson 375w/per ch Stereo Ultra GaNFET Amp..... (Dedicated 2.1 Acoustical Music Listening Room)!

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    Some good news to share....

    I have made arrangements to have the original Luna tested in a true anechoic chamber. This will, once and for all, give me the answers I seek and provide some closure.

    I will have to ship the speaker to Norway (SEAS), but our friends at SEAS are happy to run the measurements I have requested. SEAS also uses Klippel measurement gear (not the NFS though since they have a chamber), but all Klippel gear is based off the same software and same hardware analyzer.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    S.E. La. - USA
    Posts
    312

    Default Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Some good news to share....

    I have made arrangements to have the original Luna tested in a true anechoic chamber. This will, once and for all, give me the answers I seek and provide some closure...
    Great Dave, very interesting! To collaborate the two testing scenarios and their similarities will be positive confirmation...keep us informed!!

    Ted
    Sierra RAAL V2 Towers, Axiom EP 500 Sub, Morrow SP7 Grand Reference Speaker Cables, Phillips CD880 XLR Balanced Variable Line Output to Orchard Audio Strakrimson 375w/per ch Stereo Ultra GaNFET Amp..... (Dedicated 2.1 Acoustical Music Listening Room)!

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by theophile View Post
    Great Dave, very interesting! To collaborate the two testing scenarios and their similarities will be positive confirmation...keep us informed!!

    Ted
    Yes, I am excited about this. To be honest, I hope the chamber measurements perfectly match our NFS measurements in that port resonance range. Things will be a bit "messy" if they do not and I will then have to get Klippel involved to determine what is going on...
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,390

    Default Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    fingers crossed that the measurements match!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    388

    Default Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Some good news to share....

    I have made arrangements to have the original Luna tested in a true anechoic chamber. This will, once and for all, give me the answers I seek and provide some closure.

    I will have to ship the speaker to Norway (SEAS), but our friends at SEAS are happy to run the measurements I have requested. SEAS also uses Klippel measurement gear (not the NFS though since they have a chamber), but all Klippel gear is based off the same software and same hardware analyzer.
    I'm really curious to see how close everything matches too. This will be interesting to follow. Very cool you have a relationship with SEAS and they're gonna run that speaker through the anechoic gauntlet for you. This should definitively let you know how accurate the NFS is compared to the real deal.

    You're a real dog on this one man. Git 'em! Lol

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: NFS Luna / Duo Follow up

    Huge thanks to our good friends at SEAS. I shipped them the Luna that was tested by Amir (and by us) to verify the accuracy of the Klippel NFS measurements, especially in the area of the port resonance.

    SEAS measured this for me in their anechoic chamber. They also use Klippel test gear for their measurements, but they don't need or use the NFS since they have a dedicated true anechoic chamber.

    These test results speak for themselves, an exceptionally close match with our Klippel NFS measurements. This fully confirms that our NFS measurements are dead-on accurate, even in the area of the port resonance. These results also confirm that gated measurements (what nearly every speaker designer / speaker company uses) are not accurate enough to truly capture a high Q port resonance. This also explains why so many speakers tested by Amir show similar port resonance issues, it isn't that the NFS is improperly calculating this, it is that nearly all other measurement systems (aside from the NFS or a having a true anechoic chamber) are simply not capable enough to meet more stringent standards.

    I am most pleased with this outcome, it fully puts to rest this bothersome and somewhat obsessive issue for me.

    Measurement of the OG Luna taken by SEAS in their chamber is in green. Our NFS measurement of the exact same speaker in Red. I offset the curves to makes it easier to visualize. There are some slight differences, mostly in the low end and this would be due to SEAS's chamber being limited to about 80Hz. No anechoic chamber is accurate down to 20Hz, the wavelengths are just far to long to absorb. In this regard, the NFS is more accurate than any chamber.

    OG Luna SEAS (green) & OG Luna Ascend (red).jpg



    In the below 2nd measurement, also taken by SEAS, the slot port as been sealed off. You will note that this measurement tracks our published measurement for the Luna. This indicates that our gated quasi-anechoic measurements are accurate, but were just not capable of accurately picking up that front slot port resonance under typical conditions.


    OG Luna SEAS sealed port.jpg
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

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