The Tower Discussion Thread!

[millerwill]

Yeah, I wasn't sure on this and I'm under the impression that 4 ohms is the "safer" setting, so that's what I am using currently just running the two towers at the moment. I'm open to suggestions, though. Here's what the manual says about it:

"If the impedance of any speaker is 4 ohms or more but less than 6, set the minimum speaker impedance to 4 ohms. If you bi-amp the front speakers, you must change the “Speakers Type(Front)” setting. For hookup
information, see “Bi-amping the Front Speakers” (➔ page 14).
■ Speaker Impedance
`4ohms: Select if the impedance of any speaker is 4 ohms or more but less than 6.
`6ohms: Select if the impedances of all speakers are between 6 and 16 ohms."

So, an interesting question. I haven't been following the Onkyo AVR thread recently, but I seem to recall quite a bit of discussion of this ~ 6 months or so ago, and that the take home message was to go with the 6 ohm setting. Might be interesting to try to dig this out if one has the energy! Dave F might also have some significant input.

[davef]

Since I will be having Sierra-1 NRT's as L&R speakers (still with HTM-200's as surrounds), I presume that the dome tweeter for my Tower Center is preferred, right Dave?

The STC with our RAAL ribbon is very impressive for relaxed and natural sounding dialogue. You can definitely mix the ribbon center with dome left/rights if this is something that you are considering... I would not recommend ribbon left/rights with dome center but the opposite works quite well together

[charlie12125]

Please PM me your email address.

PM sent.

[millerwill]

The STC with our RAAL ribbon is very impressive for relaxed and natural sounding dialogue. You can definitely mix the ribbon center with dome left/rights if this is something that you are considering... I would not recommend ribbon left/rights with dome center but the opposite works quite well together

OK, something to consider; thanks much!

[DenPureSound]

Without having to read over all 72 + pages here, what are the Drivers in these towers (Mfg. / Model #'s).

With the RAAL as the tweeter, is the Mid-Range a Planar like the Neo8 from B & G, or ?

What are the Xover points at?

Is the cabinet a ML-TL, or ML-TQWT, or just simple bass reflex?

and Lastly, when will the Web Site be update to cover these new Towers in detail?

Thanks,
Dennis

[curtis]

The midrange and woofer drivers are proprietary to Ascend. The midrange driver is the same whether the custom SEAS tweeter or RAAL is used.

The woofer is similar to the one used in the Sierra.

It is a bass reflex design. I heard it compared to the Salk Songtower and the bass on the Sierra Tower is punchier and cleaner, where the Songtower has more a resonant characteristic. I actually heard an MDF prototype version of the Sierra Tower, I would imagine the production bamboo version aid the Tower more.

For the crossover point you will have to talk to Ascend, but it isn't simple since it is a variable slope, what Ascend calls OPPIX.

You can read a bit about the woofer and crossover in the Sierra pages:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages.../srm1tech.html

I was able to take a picture of the midrange driver...or at least a version if it:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/sho...&postcount=129

Without having to read over all 72 + pages here, what are the Drivers in these towers (Mfg. / Model #'s).

With the RAAL as the tweeter, is the Mid-Range a Planar like the Neo8 from B & G, or ?

What are the Xover points at?

Is the cabinet a ML-TL, or ML-TQWT, or just simple bass reflex?

and Lastly, when will the Web Site be update to cover these new Towers in detail?

Thanks,
Dennis

[gorthocar]

The STC with our RAAL ribbon is very impressive for relaxed and natural sounding dialogue. You can definitely mix the ribbon center with dome left/rights if this is something that you are considering... I would not recommend ribbon left/rights with dome center but the opposite works quite well together

Dang. Now you're just teasing me with the idea of going with the RAAL ribbon for my STC, even though i went with domes for my L/R.

[DenPureSound]

Ascent Tower w/ the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter -- where are the Anechoic Chamber measured Plots?

Before I spend 1,000's of dollars just for FRONTS (FL/FR) I want to see the "Anechoic Chamber" measurement plots for On and Off Axis responses, Reverse Null, Complex Impedance Plot, System Bass Response, Woofer and Port Response, Overall System Output at say 40-50 Watts (SPL vs. Freq.), and lastly Port Air Velocity Percentage (Hopefully less than 5% of the speed of sound) which will peak at lower freq's. usually around 20-30 Hz.

Forget the quotes, they sound good, they are nice and smooth... the actual measurements will "TELL THE STORY" regarding how good of an Audiophile Speaker they are.

Forget Klipsch/Def. Tech./B&W, as they have no measured plots out there that they will give the potential buyer!!

Now, KEF/REVEL Salons/Linkwitz-Orions/Philharmonic Audio --- you can get all their Measured Plots from the chamber -- that says one heck of a lot -- Period.

Bottom line, I want ACCURATE Speakers -- so let's see the measured DATA from the Chamber.

[Sam1000]

I think it's a reasonable request before spending $$ on towers and RAAL upgrade. Any new buyer would want to see this information.

On the other hand the FR gets totally skewed in home environment:-) even with room correction software :-( I have the FR graphs that are accompanied with each speaker and they are impressive. The REW graphs look totally different though. Of course, I'm measuring the FR using RadioShack meter as opposed to obscenely expensive microphones.

[davef]

Ascent Tower w/ the RAAL Ribbon Tweeter -- where are the Anechoic Chamber measured Plots?

Before I spend 1,000's of dollars just for FRONTS (FL/FR) I want to see the "Anechoic Chamber" measurement plots for On and Off Axis responses, Reverse Null, Complex Impedance Plot, System Bass Response, Woofer and Port Response, Overall System Output at say 40-50 Watts (SPL vs. Freq.), and lastly Port Air Velocity Percentage (Hopefully less than 5% of the speed of sound) which will peak at lower freq's. usually around 20-30 Hz.

Forget the quotes, they sound good, they are nice and smooth... the actual measurements will "TELL THE STORY" regarding how good of an Audiophile Speaker they are.

Forget Klipsch/Def. Tech./B&W, as they have no measured plots out there that they will give the potential buyer!!

Now, KEF/REVEL Salons/Linkwitz-Orions/Philharmonic Audio --- you can get all their Measured Plots from the chamber -- that says one heck of a lot -- Period.

Bottom line, I want ACCURATE Speakers -- so let's see the measured DATA from the Chamber.

Excuse you.. I am not Rude , but a true "ULTIMATE AUDIOPHILE" - being in this business for over 35 years, and the specs/plots will speak for themselves!

I am not stating that Ascend has to produce plots, but w/o them it is like "Guessing" totally, whether or not the Towers are ACCURATE or not, and that is FACT.

Wow – a lot of irony here. We were the first ID audio company to publish and promote detailed measurements and we were the first to send our products to the NRC for “TRUE” third party anechoic measurements.

Dennis, I am pleased to hear that you are interested in our Sierra Towers. However, we are a friendly laid-back group here and your post comes across as demanding and a bit out of place. I, more than anyone, can understand your desire to see various measurements but you should also know that comparing “manufacturer” posted measurements is not completely reliable. Many of the measurements you mention are not conducted in an anechoic chamber and many still are just modeled simulations.

If you browse our site and do a bit more reading, you will see extremely detailed and accurate measurements of all of our advertised loudspeakers. We use industry standard measurement gear, which includes two full MLSSA systems, reference grade ACO Pacific microphones and a fully automated turntable for taking accurate off-axis measurements. Our equipment is actually calibrated to the gear used at the NRC.

Still, even with a full suite of measurements – you will not be able to determine which is the more “accurate” loudspeaker. For example, what do you consider to be an accurate off-axis response? Do you expect a gentle and linear off-axis roll-off or do you expect a flat off-axis response? What ‘exactly’ does a reverse null plot even show? Move the microphone an inch in any direction and a steep and clean reverse null plot completely falls apart. How does a complex impedance plot determine loudspeaker accuracy (provided it is clean from wrinkles) or port tube air velocity for that matter (which will peak at port tuning, not at an arbitrary number.) I have spent 27+ years professionally evaluating loudspeaker measurements and in this time I have developed a suite of measurements that I feel offer keen insight into loudspeaker accuracy. These include soundpower response, various on- and off-axis measurements and various weighted average comparisons, both anechoic and first and even second reflections (all of our measurements are time domain based.)

Every designer will have their personal opinion as to which measurements matter and which don’t – and ultimately, the market will determine if we got it right or wrong. Based on how many loudspeakers I have personally designed and sold in my too many years in this industry, I can say without hesitation that we got something right

Our standard suite of measurements will be posted soon.

All that said, our Sierra Towers and many of the other loudspeakers you are considering are very different from your Klipsch RF7-II. Obviously, there is something about them you are not quite happy with and I would be happy to discuss with you to determine if our products offer what you are looking for.