How do you listen to music (devices, etc.)?

[Dark Ranger]

Oh yeah, now that's what I'm talking about!

You're gonna have lots of fun, I can guarantee you that. Be sure to start your own thread about this so we can get all the gory details.

[Dark Ranger]

I recently purchased a pair of CBM-170 SE's and a Denon AVR-1712. I have quite a bit of music as FLAC files on my Sony Vaio laptop. I play them using foobar2000.

What's the best way to play them with my setup? So far I've tried HDMI from the laptop directly to the receiver, which worked. I'm also looking into using a toslink mini-plug adapter so that I can run an optical cable from my laptop to reciever.

Is there a way for me listen without any decoding? How much does decoding change the sound?

Hi noteworthy,

There are several ways you can approach this. Here are a few of my thoughts:

1) Connectivity - if you're happy with the HDMI connection, I would stick with that. TOSLINK could work, but some transmitters output only up to 24/96. For example, many Apple computers have a built-in optical output, but some are limited to 24/96. If you have higher bit rate music (e.g. 24/176.4 or 24/192), then the TOSLINK hardware may not be able to output those bit-perfect. HDMI can handle the higher resolution files and it's likely to be a more robust connection. You can certainly try both. I actually use both TOSLINK and HDMI connections in my setup. I send audio to a separate DAC (stereo playback only) and to a pre/pro (for multichannel) depending what I'm playing.

2) Playback - I'll admit I'm not familiar with foobar2000, so you might want to consider perusing the FAQs or manual for the software program for a full explanation of "how" to change a specific setting.

Personally, I prefer "bit-perfect" playback as much as possible. This means that I output the digital file exactly as it is with no modifications (EQ, up-sampling, etc.) in the signal path. Foobar2000 may have an option like this. What you're looking for is "pure" unadulterated playback of the original source signal. Some playback software also requires "Exclusive Access" to the output hardware to do bit-perfect. I can do this with my JRiver Media Center.

Like JRiver, foobar2000 also allows one to select output modes such as ASIO or WASAPI, among others. If your laptop runs Windows Vista, 7, or 8, I'd recommend using WASAPI (Event Style) if possible. Otherwise, ASIO or Kernel Streaming can work.

Configuring foobar2000 for bit-perfect playback will ensure you're delivering the source file to your AVR with no tampering. However, if you need or want to use some of the plug-ins and DSP, then it will definitely modify your source somewhat. Whether it's audible is another matter as it depends on how the signal is modified. Any "conversion" done to the original source will change it. However, there is some conversion that should take place such as creating a PCM stream and sending that to your AVR. Most likely, your AVR cannot decode native FLAC files. This PCM conversion is usually done automatically by the computer, although some sound cards must be instructed to output PCM instead of another format (e.g. DTS Interactive, Dolby Digital Live, etc.).

I definitely recommend doing some research into the full capabilities of foobar2000 so that you can maximize either sound quality or flexibility/plug-ins depending what you're after.

[Veda]

Foobar2000 isn't only free but can play bit perfect as mentioned by Jacob while having a very fast built in convertor. Just point and click to the songs in the player and you get a menu to convert let's say FLAC to MP3 with advanced settings.

All of the built in DAC's or Power DAC amps I've tried cannot process FLAC directly as it is resource intensive. So all signals even when streamed through USB is PCM.

Regarding HDMI, it's the only cable where I had to put a ferrite clamp to resolve issues. I can't help but to think it'll affect to audio signal as well. Never had a problem with regular coax SPDIF or USB.

[noteworthy]

I've installed the WASAPI plugin to foobar. I'm using Windows 7. I have it set to WASAPI (event) : Denon-AVAMP-1. There's a WASAPI (push) : Denon-AVAMP-1 setting, but I don't know the difference.

I'm still researching so I don't know if the above settings give me bit-perfect audio.

[Erik]

I've installed the WASAPI plugin to foobar. I'm using Windows 7. I have it set to WASAPI (event) : Denon-AVAMP-1. There's a WASAPI (push) : Denon-AVAMP-1 setting, but I don't know the difference.

I'm still researching so I don't know if the above settings give me bit-perfect audio.

WASAPI event style is the one that bypasses the Windows mixer and sends the bitstream directly to the audio device. What makes it bit perfect, at least what I understand, is that the output format in Foobar matches the bit depth of the source file. So if you have a 24/96k file, the output in the Foobar preferences should be 24-bits. I use ASIO and in my Foobar preferences the output format is automatically chosen for the device.

In JRiver, bit perfect is easy to see b/c the audio path button turns blue. If you are using any DSP functions or the equalizer it will not turn blue. So in Foobar I would not use any equalizer or DSP functions either.

[noteworthy]

Thanks everyone, esp Dark Ranger. If you hadn't replied to my other threads I don't know if/when I would have received help.

I have everything set up and ready to listen to some music. I might try the JRiver free trial, but I don't want to spend $50 for it when foobar is free.

How do I find out what bit my FLAC files are?

[Dark Ranger]

No problem. Glad I could offer some assistance.

Regarding WASAPI: if your system doesn't complain with error messages, I'd recommend WASAPI (Event) instead of the Push. The Event mode allows the audio subsystem to "pull" data as needed instead of pushing it. Basically, Event allows the system to be more efficient (better thread management, lower buffer sizes, and a more direct path to the physical hardware) along with a few bug fixes that "push" mode often runs into. However, if your system gives you errors using Event, then use Push instead.

Bit-perfect is just a term used to mean that the file exits the same way it came in with no tampering. There are a few configurations that generally go hand-in-hand when striving for bit-perfect playback:

1) Use WASAPI (Event or Push)

2) Configure your playback software to match the input bit-depth and sampling rate. For example, some playback software programs allow internal up-sampling. If you have a 16-bit/44.1kHz file coming in and the program up-samples it to 24-bit/96kHz, that's not bit perfect. You have changed the original signal. Some folks do prefer the up-sample, but if you're striving for bit-perfect, then that's not "correct." Make sure the source file exits at the same bit-dept and sampling rate. Most programs will allow you to select a setting like "match source bit depth/sampling rate." This is recommended if possible.

3) Avoid using the software effects like DSP, EQ/PEQ, time-scaling, or other effects. This changes the original signal.


Experiment and remember to have fun.

[noteworthy]

Thanks. I'm experimenting as I write this. Unfortunately Wasapi (Event) gives me an error. I have to use (Push). There may some compatibility issue with my sound card.

I just installed JRiver. Right away I noticed the volume is much lower than when using foobar. This is with default settings in JRiver. I have to go back and see if you recommended any settings on page 6.

[Dark Ranger]

The regular WASAPI (push) is usually more compatible than the Event version, so that is a good fall-back. It's worth knowing that the two versions will sound identical, they just differ in how they receive and deliver data.

You might also try the ASIO option. If your sound card has a functioning ASIO driver, this is a great option to use. Select ASIO from the JRiver options and give that a try, too. You may get an error if there is no supported driver, but it's worth playing with in my opinion.

About the volume difference - it's been a while since I've installed JRiver, but I seem to recall that the default volume uses the Windows volume control. I switched it to the Internal volume control which makes the Windows one useless (this is a good thing). Locate the volume control in JRiver in the upper left area (under the back, play/pause, stop, forward buttons). Right click on the little white speaker icon and select Internal Volume.

Here are my current settings in JRiver MC 17:

WASAPI - Event Style
Open device for exclusive access (checked)
Hardware buffer size - 100 ms

Here are my current settings in Windows for my external DAC:

Sample rate and bit depth for shared mode: 2 channel, 16 bit, 44100 Hz (CD Quality)
Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device (checked)
Give exclusive mode applications priority (checked)


With JRiver, you'll see the Audio Path icon light up in blue when no changes are being made (bit perfect). The attached image shows the location of this icon.

[noteworthy]

I get the incompatibility error with Wasapi - Event Style in JRiver. I also tried ASIO and Kernal Streaming, with the same error. Are ASIO and Kernal Streaming built into JRiver or do I have to add them like I did Wasapi with foobar?

It's been a while since I looked into what components my Sony VAIO F Series has, so using AID64 Extreme I was able to see that it has Realtek ALC275 sound card. I don't know how good it is, but I suspect that it's not great. I may have to look into alternatives - a new sound card or something else - to get bit perfect playback using my VAIO.