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Thread: Diamond Tweeter?

  1. #91
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    Dec 2005
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    I should also mention...

    For quite a while now, I've been anxious to see more speaker manufacturers start to use self-powered designs with active crossovers. Yes, much like professional studio monitors, you would have to plug each speaker into an electrical wall outlet. But the benefits of each individual driver having its own, dedicated, tuned amplifier all to itself; plus, an active crossover with tremendously tuneable and accurate filters; it all just seems to attractive to not be considered!

    So this new "Ascend Diamond Series" that I'm proposing - if it's going to have extremely high output capabilities like I think it should - one obvious way to help achieve that would be to have the amplification built right into the speaker!

  2. #92
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstReflect View Post
    I should also mention...

    For quite a while now, I've been anxious to see more speaker manufacturers start to use self-powered designs with active crossovers. Yes, much like professional studio monitors, you would have to plug each speaker into an electrical wall outlet. But the benefits of each individual driver having its own, dedicated, tuned amplifier all to itself; plus, an active crossover with tremendously tuneable and accurate filters; it all just seems to attractive to not be considered!

    So this new "Ascend Diamond Series" that I'm proposing - if it's going to have extremely high output capabilities like I think it should - one obvious way to help achieve that would be to have the amplification built right into the speaker!
    Self-powered with Diamond tweeters? $10K bookshelves, here we come!
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  3. #93
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstReflect View Post
    I should also mention...

    For quite a while now, I've been anxious to see more speaker manufacturers start to use self-powered designs with active crossovers. Yes, much like professional studio monitors, you would have to plug each speaker into an electrical wall outlet. But the benefits of each individual driver having its own, dedicated, tuned amplifier all to itself; plus, an active crossover with tremendously tuneable and accurate filters; it all just seems to attractive to not be considered!

    So this new "Ascend Diamond Series" that I'm proposing - if it's going to have extremely high output capabilities like I think it should - one obvious way to help achieve that would be to have the amplification built right into the speaker!
    There are both advantages and disadvantages to active speakers. While it seems that active filters have an advantage over passive filters - in reality it isn't so simple. Active filters require using op amps (unless going all DSP and that presents additional problems) - and like everything else in electronics, some are good and some are terrible for audio usage. The good ones can be quite expensive (OPA 134's typically run $4 each) and depending on the complexity of the filters, many would need to be used - with each one adding small amounts of noise & distortion. There is actually less manipulation of the original source with a passive filter network, but active gives the advantage of more precise slopes and contouring, no phase shift if done right and less losses. Is this an advantage? Does it actually sound better? It depends on many factors - there is no clear cut advantage.

    There can also be serious issues with RFI, a potential issue that does not exist with passive speakers.

    With a fully active speaker, it obviously requires the amp to be built into the speaker. Most active speakers these days use class D amplification due to the smaller footprint and higher efficiency - but the more revealing the speaker, the less I recommend class D amplifiers as switching noise becomes problematic. It is unlikely to see a true class A or class A/B amp in an active speaker due to the amount of heat sinking required. The amplifier is typically where costs are cut the most and you just won't find the quality amplification that you can find in a good power amp compared to what is used in an active speaker. For a pair of 2-way speakers, one would need 4 channels of amplification. For a pair of 3-way speakers, 6 channels of amplification.

    You then also need ETL/UL certification and I can tell you first hand that getting this certification is very costly and offers nothing other than a safety assurance to the consumer. Different countries require different certifications - it is a logistics nightmare.

    There is a reason active hi-fi speakers have not become more mainstream - and in my experience, I have to agree. It is not something we would likely pursue here but I can definitely see the appeal for certain market segments.

    The SEAS white diamond tweeter is a 26mm dome tweeter. It is rated at 300 watts peak power handling when crossed with a 2nd order filter at 2500Hz (we would cross lower than this). It is also 89dB efficiency... This should never be considered an extremely high output tweeter. The 70-20 RAAL we use in our tower would be similar with regard to maximum output levels. To reach the extremely high output levels that I believe you are suggesting would require an array of dome tweeters or a high efficiency CD. Tweeters like the diamond are designed for accuracy, purity and transparency - these are very different design goals.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  4. #94
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    Oct 2015
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    5

    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Thank you for yet another awesome and thorough response, Dave! I love how you always explain things in layman's terms so it's easy to understand your point/thoughts. You are very pragmatic with your designs and execution - I respect and appreciate this. It's one of the reasons I chose Ascend. I enjoy hearing the method to your "madness".


  5. #95
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    Nov 2009
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    291

    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    I think an active bass section wouldn't be too bad like the rythmik 8 inch. Dave seems to like it . What is left would be a mid/woofer that can work as a two way or three way.

  6. #96
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arro View Post
    Thank you for yet another awesome and thorough response, Dave! I love how you always explain things in layman's terms so it's easy to understand your point/thoughts. You are very pragmatic with your designs and execution - I respect and appreciate this. It's one of the reasons I chose Ascend. I enjoy hearing the method to your "madness".


    Thank you - I am always happy to share my thoughts on new designs and the process itself. Since we are a small company, and I prefer it to remain this way, we need to be critical of what we invest our resources into (both time and $$$) I believe I have generally made the right choices in this regard and so much of this comes from direct input from our customers - which is what makes the direct sales model so terrific!

    The SEAS white diamond model is really more of a pet project to me than anything else, if we sell one pair or a few dozen, it doesn't matter - I am doing this for myself. Projects like these fuel my passion and give me a basis for which I can compare to other models. SEAS is also happy that I decided to pursue this further and keeping my vendors happy is important to me. If not for our great relationships with our many vendors, we would not exist.

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoJoa View Post
    I think an active bass section wouldn't be too bad like the rythmik 8 inch. Dave seems to like it . What is left would be a mid/woofer that can work as a two way or three way.
    Others have asked about this as well and I have discussed it with Brian. At some point in the future, I will be looking into this option and since nobody has a closer or longer working partnership with Rythmik, in many ways it is perfect match.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  7. #97
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    Oct 2013
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    Grand Haven, MI
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Others have asked about this as well and I have discussed it with Brian. At some point in the future, I will be looking into this option and since nobody has a closer or longer working partnership with Rythmik, in many ways it is perfect match.
    Oh hell yes... Having the highs and lows of the Sierra 2 with a built in F8 would be AWESOME!!!!
    -Ben

  8. #98
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    May 2007
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    Stouffville,Ont..
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    I guess...I'm in the minority, I suppose but a properly integrated sub & speakers would be superior to having full range towers. I'd rather have the mass moving ability...of a large driver(15-18") vs that of a full range towers with 8" woofs(~28-35hz)....its not even close when I compare the two in my current set up...a good sub is far more capable option...YMMV.
    Speakers 5.1.2: TitanTowers v2 & STC(RAAL v2), MA CP-WT&CT260
    Sub: Funk Audio 18.0 SantosRW

    Source: Denon X3800H, Oppo BDP 103D, UBK-90 4K & LG B9 65"
    Office 2.0: Philharmonic True Mini(coming-soon), Fosi TB10D via Wiim mini.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by billy p View Post
    I guess...I'm in the minority, I suppose but a properly integrated sub & speakers would be superior to having full range towers. I'd rather have the mass moving ability...of a large driver(15-18") vs that of a full range towers with 8" woofs(~28-35hz)....its not even close when I compare the two in my current set up...a good sub is far more capable option...YMMV.
    I agree.
    -curtis

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    373

    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Thanks, Dave!

    I was ignorant of the SEAS Diamond tweeter's output capabilities and power handling. I inferred that it could play substantially louder than the 70-20XL RAAL ribbon. But since that is not the case, it renders my other suggestions moot!

    I also greatly appreciate your discussion of passive vs. active speaker design. That's very illuminating

    - Rob H.

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