How to bring ELX Raal to life at low volume levels?

[MCat1967]

Need some serious help or I am going to need to sell these and I do NOT want to do that. I purchased a pair of ELX Raal towers a month ago from Dina. I still have or have owned S1 NRT, S2, S2EXv2 (one of my favorite speakers ever) and now the end game ELX. I have tinnitus so I try to keep my listening levels right at 78 to 80 dbs with peaks into the low 80's. However my problem is ever since the ELX have arrived my wife complains that I am playing music too loud. She has never complained before. I mean there was the rare occasion when I would get carried away but that was intentional and the volume was turned up. What's happening now is happening at my normal 78db's and the problem is when I lower the volume to 75 or below, the ELX towers lose all of their life, energy and excitement.

My listening room is my home office and it is 9 x 13. My amp is a Sugden IA4 class A solid state putting out 33 watts. I traded in the S2 EXV2 for the ELX and my wife never complained about the S2 EXv2's being too loud.

My question is can anyone offer advice on how to not lose the life out of the ELX when listening at lower volumes i.e. 65 to 75 max dbs? Or is the AMP pairing just not enough to drive them at lower volumes? For what its worth I only need to turn the volume up 1/4 of the way and I can hot 75dbs, so there is plenty of power left.

Any help or advice appreciated.

Mike

[goldark]

The ELX tower has more and deeper bass, which can be perceived as "louder" since it can literally shake rooms. I would guess this is what your wife is actually perceiving and that's why when you switch to bookshelf speakers that have much less bass capabilities, it's fine.

[MCat1967]

The ELX tower has more and deeper bass, which can be perceived as "louder" since it can literally shake rooms. I would guess this is what your wife is actually perceiving and that's why when you switch to bookshelf speakers that have much less bass capabilities, it's fine.

I appreciate the response and you may be right, however it's not fine. My wife is not happy with the loudness at which these speakers play (in other words, this cannot continue) and turning them down removes the life out of them for me and my taste. So not fine at all, I still have a situation I need to deal with.

[racrawford65]

I don't think goldark was saying your situation was fine, but the "loudness" was fine for your wife using the bookshelves and not the Towers.

Have you tried repositioning the speakers (e.g. sit closer, toe in or out, further/closer to side/rear walls)?

Maybe you need more time with the ELX at an acceptable volume to get used to them?

Do you listen with the door open or closed (if your room has a door)? Maybe try closing the door, assuming your wife isn't in the room with you and she's complaining about the "Loudness" when in a different part of the house?

Have you spoken with Dina or Dave about this particular concern?

I may be missing something, but if your normal level is 78-80 db, not sure how the ELX can be too loud and the bookshelves fine? 78 dB is 78 dB, regardless of what speaker is putting it out.

[curtis]

I think what goldark mentions makes a lot of sense. The bass capabilities of the ELX over the Sierra bookshelves is significant. At the same listening levels (you measured with an SPL meter?) the ELXs have more bass. When you turned down the volume, you not only lose the bass, but everything else as well.

Have you asked your wife what about the sound bothers her? Does your amplification have tone/bass controls? If so, try turning down the bass and see if that makes a difference with you wife.

[Bruce Watson]

My question is can anyone offer advice on how to not lose the life out of the ELX when listening at lower volumes i.e. 65 to 75 max dbs?

Speakers are linear devices for the most part. Human hearing isn't even close to linear -- it varies over the frequency range by loudness. What you're hearing is what was first published as the Fletcher-Munson curves (1933). Now called Robinson-Dadson curves (1956 recreation of the research and refined the results), or the more descriptive "equal loudness contours" (defined now in ISO-266):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour

This is the basis for the old "loudness" buttons on old preamps. Push the button and get an increase in the low end and the high end, so it sounds better (that is, flatter) at lower overall volumes.

It's also the basis for the Denon Dynamic Volume system. Dynamic Volume is supposed to track the Master Volume setting and apply just the right amount of bass and/or treble as is needed for the human ear to perceive flatness. As you turn down the volume it adjusts the frequency response for you automatically. Works quite well IMHO.

The point is, what you're hearing is not a "failure" of the speakers. What your wife is hearing is the increase in bass because the towers can reach lower than the bookshelves. She equates this increase in bass as "louder" when in fact it's just "deeper". The equal loudness contours predict exactly this response.

If you want more "life" from your speakers at a lower volume level, turn up the bass and the treble. As much or as little as you want. How you do that is up to you. But if you follow the equal loudness contours, you'll take full advantage of what the speakers can do at whatever volume level you end up using.

[davef]

I appreciate the response and you may be right, however it's not fine. My wife is not happy with the loudness at which these speakers play (in other words, this cannot continue) and turning them down removes the life out of them for me and my taste. So not fine at all, I still have a situation I need to deal with.

Bruce is 100% Correct! Speakers are linear devices, their performance does not change with amplitude (volume) until they reach their thermal or mechanical limits. What does change is our own hearing, and this has been well documented starting with Fletcher Munson curves.

The ELX are considerably more dynamic speakers than our bookshelf speakers, they also produce much deeper bass extension. They are also considerably cleaner with lower levels of distortion at the same volume levels. This "cleaner sound" does generally lead listeners to listen at higher volume levels than previously.

A few important questions:

How are you measuring what SPL you are listening at?

Are you using a subwoofer in this room?

What is your listening distance from the distance?

Thanks in advance!

[MCat1967]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I was not trying to be a jerk to goldak. I was just saying unfortunately the problem still exists. I know the speakers are not the problem. I may just be listening louder and need to close the office door. I usually leave it open because she likes some of what I play. But it's not really the bass annoying her. If you are familiar with Keith Don't Go by Nils, at the end he really belts it out and she said that came across so loud to her compared to other speakers I have used included the exv2. She also said Pink Floyd songs where they go from quiet to loud are not driving her nuts. I assume that is dynamics?

Dave: I'm using an app on my iphone to measure. I've used it for a few years now. I do NOT use a sub. I am in a 9 x 13 room and sit 6 feet from the speakers.

Also any truth to the advice that the woofers need to break in and will come alive more at lower volumes after about 200 hours of being worked out with bass heavy tracks?

[SunByrne]

I’d run REW and see if the ELXs are perhaps exciting a room mode that the EXv2s were not. In general I like the LXs better then the EXv2s but I have a room with a ~42Hz room mode and the LXs are louder at this frequency so I needed to EQ that frequency down a little bit when I switched from EXv2s to LXs.

[davef]

If you are familiar with Keith Don't Go by Nils, at the end he really belts it out and she said that came across so loud to her compared to other speakers I have used included the exv2. She also said Pink Floyd songs where they go from quiet to loud are not driving her nuts. I assume that is dynamics?

Yes, that is exactly what dynamics is. The transition and ability of the speaker to go from soft or no volume, to loud volumes. The ELX towers also have higher sensitivity than your previous speakers and since your amp is only 33 watts, those dynamic passages with the lower sensitivity speakers are likely reaching the max power output capabilities of your amp, thus compressing (squashing) the peaks.

Dave: I'm using an app on my iphone to measure. I've used it for a few years now. I do NOT use a sub. I am in a 9 x 13 room and sit 6 feet from the speakers.

Those iPhone apps are very inaccurate. I would suggest picking up an inexpensive SPL meter from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Tadeto-Portab...dp/B09G6HLNVV/

This way you can actually measure average listening levels and peak listening levels, as well as using proper weighting.

Also any truth to the advice that the woofers need to break in and will come alive more at lower volumes after about 200 hours of being worked out with bass heavy tracks?

200 hours? That is complete nonsense. The compliance of our LX Woofers will change a bit, but this will happen within the first 10-20 hours and I doubt there would be any audible changes.

As I and others tried to explain to you, speakers are linear devices. The tonal balance of the speakers will not change at different volume levels until you reach mechanical or thermal limits. Your hearing is what changes.

My suggestion, pickup an inexpensive receiver with Audyssey and that also has pre-outs. Use this as your pre-amp. You can then enable "night mode" - which does a good job at compressing those dynamic peaks. I use this feature all the time at my own home when I like to watch a movie late at night and I need to turn the volume up a bit louder to better hear dialogue. Enabling night mode dramatically reduces those dynamic peaks so they don't get too loud, thus waking up my family. Different brands of receivers have different names for this. With Denon, it is night mode. Others often call it DRC, Dynamic Range Control - and most have adjustable levels of compression. I believe with Audyssey, it can be called Dynamic Volume Control.

In addition, you can also enable Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which is based off the Fletcher Munson Curves (how humans hear) that I previously mentioned. It adds equalization, mostly in low frequency ranges, to compensate for how we hear so that the source material sounds fuller at lower volume levels. As volume increases, Dynamic EQ adds less and less equalization.

In addition, if you go with my suggestion and depending on which receiver you choose, you can then have blue tooth, airplay and many other very useful features, including bass management options. And you can still use your amplifier.

Hope this helps!