New Sierra-2 impressions...

[duvallite]

I've narrowed my search for dedicated music speakers down to the Sierra-2, Nola Boxer, and Reference 3A Dulcet, using a Rogue Sphinx to drive them. They all seem to get great reviews, are well liked, and pricing is very close. Are the Sierra-2s better, and has anyone here heard the Boxers and/or the Dulcets and can give an opinion as to how they sound and compare to the Sierra-2? No chance to hear any of them myself beforehand, so I'll likely be buying blind. Thanks.

[Macddmac]

I've narrowed my search for dedicated music speakers down to the Sierra-2, Nola Boxer, and Reference 3A Dulcet, using a Rogue Sphinx to drive them. They all seem to get great reviews, are well liked, and pricing is very close. Are the Sierra-2s better, and has anyone here heard the Boxers and/or the Dulcets and can give an opinion as to how they sound and compare to the Sierra-2? No chance to hear any of them myself beforehand, so I'll likely be buying blind. Thanks.

Not sure if you're able to return the Boxers or Dulcet's but you definitely can the S2's.
I'd start with the Ascends, and take it from there, although I doubt you'll return them.
I've never heard the Sierra 2's but I have the 1's and they're the best standmount speaker I have experienced under 2k with the exception of the LS50 which IMO are a dead-heat with the ones.
Cheers, Mac

[markie]

I've narrowed my search for dedicated music speakers down to the Sierra-2, Nola Boxer, and Reference 3A Dulcet, using a Rogue Sphinx to drive them. They all seem to get great reviews, are well liked, and pricing is very close. Are the Sierra-2s better, and has anyone here heard the Boxers and/or the Dulcets and can give an opinion as to how they sound and compare to the Sierra-2? No chance to hear any of them myself beforehand, so I'll likely be buying blind. Thanks.

All very good speakers. I would *love* to hear them all in the same room together. As it is, I haven't even heard one of them.

I've heard larger, open backed Nola speakers and they were very good, although not a 'wow' for me personally, at that time, in that room. I think the high frequencies of the Nola's, in general, won't draw attention with any oohhs and aahhs. But the highs of the Sierra 2's would be more stand out, in a very good way.

The Dulcet's I've only heard about. They are manufactured less than an hour drive away from Toronto where I live. Amazingly they lack a crossover(?) so the frequency response may not be the most even. They are very direct and lively sounding. Foot tapping. Although they are dynamic they can't be played too loudly as they can tend to get a honky sound so I've heard.

The Boxers and Dulcet are great for tone and texture and capturing very well the real sound of various instruments. I don't recall comments on the Sierra 2 about that aspect and would welcome insights from owners of the Sierra 2 about this.

Interestingly people who own the Boxers and Dulcet generally have more upscale electronics costing much more than the speakers.

In short: What monitor among the three give the most rich, yet clear, sound? (Something you indicated you valued in your first post.) I wish I knew! There is another monitor called the Clue which retails for around the same price. It is known for a rich and full type of sound, with oodles of bass, because it is meant to go right up against a wall and utilize wall reinforcement. But I don't know how clear or clean sounding it is.

Please let us know how things turn out!

Mark

[davef]

I've narrowed my search for dedicated music speakers down to the Sierra-2, Nola Boxer, and Reference 3A Dulcet, using a Rogue Sphinx to drive them. They all seem to get great reviews, are well liked, and pricing is very close. Are the Sierra-2s better, and has anyone here heard the Boxers and/or the Dulcets and can give an opinion as to how they sound and compare to the Sierra-2? No chance to hear any of them myself beforehand, so I'll likely be buying blind. Thanks.

I hope this doesn't come across as a negative towards the Boxer or the Dulcet, but both of these speakers are better compared to our Sierra-1 than our Sierra-2. Try not to use retail price as any indication of what should be compared to what

[steveting99]

Dave,

Thank you for the reply.

Wanted to ask about THD measurement for the Sierra-2. Would it be possible to disclose this and include this as part of the measurement section for the speaker? The reason I ask is that not many speaker manufacturers' are willing to disclose this information as it might give the impression that distortion / coloration numbers might put off some buyers. What I'll be interested in is the THD curve that's easily available from REW.

Another general question if you would please. If I cross over the Sierra-2 at say 80Hz to the sub woofer, how much power is being saved at the Seirra-2? What I understand is that producing the bass takes the most amount of power, while the mids and high frequencies requires less. Is there a general rule of thumb that can be used for power split between the bass:mid/high frequencies, such as 3:1 in dB/W/m unit? I believe it'll be crossover frequency dependent. What I'm trying to determine is of a smaller amp + sub woofer is sufficient.

[davef]

Dave,

Thank you for the reply.

Wanted to ask about THD measurement for the Sierra-2. Would it be possible to disclose this and include this as part of the measurement section for the speaker? The reason I ask is that not many speaker manufacturers' are willing to disclose this information as it might give the impression that distortion / coloration numbers might put off some buyers. What I'll be interested in is the THD curve that's easily available from REW.

It is not that manufacturer’s aren’t willing to disclose this info, it is that it is a rather meaningless measurement and offers no insight to the way a loudspeaker sounds. THD under 1% is inaudible, and even most mediocre loudspeakers have THD well below this level within their stated bandwidth and power handling specifications.

In addition, you can not compare one manufacturer’s THD measurements of a loudspeaker with another, unless using the exact same equipment and driving level.

For example, with REW – How much of the THD measured is generated by the soundcard? How much THD is caused by the PC itself? (noise / RFI / any other type of interference will also show up as THD) What drive level are you using? Certainly a soundcard amplifier is not truly capable of driving a hi-fi loudspeaker, so ideally you should be using the line-out of the sound card into an amplifier to drive the speaker. In this case, how much of the THD is generated by the amp? Every single component in the chain will generate THD that will be reproduced by the speaker and show up in the measurement. So while you think you are measuring the THD of the loudspeaker, you are actually measuring the THD of the entire system…

Properly measuring THD requires considerably more sophisticated measurement gear and loop-back reference measurements must be made.

And finally, but of equal importance, REW uses swept sine waves – which are steady state signals. These are not representative of music or home theater sources. Different types of transducers perform better / worse with steady state signals – such that a particular design performs remarkably well on a sine wave based THD measurement – but yet performs poorly with non steady state sources (multi-tone impulse measurements which is more representative of music) The opposite is also true…

Another general question if you would please. If I cross over the Sierra-2 at say 80Hz to the sub woofer, how much power is being saved at the Seirra-2? What I understand is that producing the bass takes the most amount of power, while the mids and high frequencies requires less. Is there a general rule of thumb that can be used for power split between the bass:mid/high frequencies, such as 3:1 in dB/W/m unit? I believe it'll be crossover frequency dependent. What I'm trying to determine is of a smaller amp + sub woofer is sufficient.

There are just too many variables to answer this question. It completely depends on the source material being played. However, overall wattage requirement for an amp would not change, what changes by crossing over the amp and lessening the bass demand on the amp is available headroom.

Hope this helps!

[steveting99]

Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

Didn't know that THD was such a problematic number to look at.

Using your analysis of the entire sound chain, i.e. source ---> player ---> pre/pro ---> amp ---> speaker ---> room acoustics ---> measurement mic

which adds various levels of THD at each point such that the end measurement is combined error, could the same be said for frequency response say from 20Hz to 20kHz?

Or even the waterfall graph?

I'm trying to understand why such measurements are meaningful while others are not. There will be always be errors in measurement, but what makes say frequency response or decay useful, but THD not so?

[davef]

Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

Didn't know that THD was such a problematic number to look at.

Using your analysis of the entire sound chain, i.e. source ---> player ---> pre/pro ---> amp ---> speaker ---> room acoustics ---> measurement mic

which adds various levels of THD at each point such that the end measurement is combined error, could the same be said for frequency response say from 20Hz to 20kHz?

Or even the waterfall graph?

I'm trying to understand why such measurements are meaningful while others are not. There will be always be errors in measurement, but what makes say frequency response or decay useful, but THD not so?

When taking frequency response measurements, for professional measurement gear like we use, a microphone calibration file is loaded to account for any response deviations in the mic response. The frequency response of the amp is also measured and accounted for in the response measurement. Even if the test gear you are using does not allow this, it is assumed that the amplifier you are using will measure "flat" and nearly all do. What you see in our measurements with regard to frequency response measurements is the speaker only.

The waterfall plots we publish are cumulative spectral decay -- any "decay" in the power amp or any other components in the chain is also accounted for by taking loop back measurements. However, the decay in a power amp is so miniscule that in most cases, for cumulative spectral decay, loop back measurements aren't even necessary.

THD measurements for a loudspeaker, as previously stated, in no way describe how a loudspeaker sounds. If one knows how to interpret frequency response graphs in combination with CSD graphs and off-axis graphs, one can get a very good understanding of how a loudspeaker sounds. For example, I most certainly know how a speaker will sound if it has a 6dB bump in the response at 100Hz as compared to one that does not. If I had two identical speakers and one measured .5% THD and the other measured even .01% THD, I could not tell them apart. Nor could I describe the way a loudspeaker sounds if it had 3% THD.

In addition to this, there are just far too many variables involved to compare THD graphs between loudspeakers unless taken using the exact same equipment and same SPL. And even with that, one speaker may measure an average of 0.5% THD while another might measure 0.1% THD. One speaker would look much better than the other one, but the THD level in either speaker is completely inaudible.

Even in amplifiers and receivers, THD is rather meaningless and mostly used for marketing purposes. THD typically measures quite high in tube amplifiers.

[steveting99]

I'd like to have a listen to the Sierra 2 and would like to know if there's anyone here in Hong Kong who's got a pair and willing to accommodate my request?

[Galaga]

Just want to say I have owned the Sierra-2's for 6 months now and I am still super happy with my decision. Still being surprised by and enjoying the clarity and richness of the sound, especially that high-end cymbal sparkle. Really hard pressed to find any negatives with the speakers and they have really brought some music and memories to life for my wife and I.