Projector Process...

[Nicholas Mosher]

Smokey, I plan to start looking for places to view different projectors sometime next month (after I get my second sub). Depending on how much overtime I get at my new job (I start tomorrow) and which projector I get I'll be purchasing a PJ in late June/Early July.

Thats the plan anyways. Then I'll pick up a screen a couple weeks after that, and some home theater seating towards the end of summer (to replace my old green couch ).

Guitar is going good. Now my fingertips don't hurt much, but the knuckles in my left hand index finger are ready to explode from squeezing the frets...

[Jonnyozero3]

Nicholas -

Too bad you aren't closer to Omaha. I just bought the Toshiba MT700 a few weeks ago. I demo'd a few (Sony HS51, Sharp ??2000, $$$ Yamaha) in a stores, and I am IMMENSELY satisfied with the Toshiba. The LCD's are a great choice, but I really wanted to get the best black levels possible, so I ponied up the extra $600. That means my sub is a month away now...as well as surrounds...very sad But anyhow, I'd demo it for you, but I guess screenshots will have to do.

Projector:
http://community.webshots.com/album/331614577HhULDO

Rest of Room setup:
http://community.webshots.com/album/109804667bgmVCV

I've said this a million times in reference to these photos - but the camera captured images absolutely do not do justice to the sharpness/contrast/brightness/color of the image. It's also only calibrated by eye since I have a crappy dvd player and didn't waste the effort. Just keep that in mind

[curtis]

I am so envious of you guys that have rooms that can pull off an FP setup.

[Jonnyozero3]

Curtis...for a modest fee you can use mine Just kidding. This setup was a long time in coming for me, and I'm not sure if I should have blown this much money on it...but seems worth it to me! It's one of those finally-a-regular-decent-paycheck-harry-homeowner-type things.

[Nicholas Mosher]

Jonny those blacks look great!

Unfortunately I had an unfortunate experience with DLP today...

I went to a couple stores (a big-box and a hifi shop) after work today. The local CC finally hooked up some DVD players to each TV and dimmed all the lights in the TV section so I could finally test out some of their display units. I brought AVIA and a few DVDs. You should have seen the sales guys when I started screwing around with the basic AVIA modes using the colored filters to get reasonably accurate colors that werent red saturated maximum brightness images...

Them: "Yes sir, this is what we call a high definition TV... um... what are you doing sir?"

I am happy to note that on the newer rear-projection DLP units with the uber-speed color-wheels I can see absolutely no rainbow effect. Black levels were spectacular.

Thats where the fun ended though. After about ~10min of viewing my eyes started hurting. I switched to watching an LCD or Plasma and the problem went away. I was also very dissapointed with the dithering. The lagging/smearing (compared to LCD based units) in some scenes had me raising an eyebrow. With some material it was borderline aggravating. Everytime it happened the picture lost its realism and ruined the experience.

Black levels and lack of screen door effect severity were superior on the DLP units I viewed (including an InFocus SP4805), but everything else seemed less than desirable to me.

I think I'm back to looking at LCD based projectors. The 4 or 5 DLP units I checked out were all at the bottom of my favorite list after auditioning today.

The best rear projection unit I saw was a 50" Hitachi Ultravision. Nice TV.

[Jonnyozero3]

Nick (Do you prefer the short version? ) -

It is unfortunate that each technology today has it's issues and trade-offs. I guess that's the nature of the beast until we're all running Blu-HD-fed 1080p Super Displays with 6^292352593475:1 contrast ratios, infinitely adjustable lumens, and UTSC universal tuners that tune 2-way cable, OTA HD, Dish, DirecTV, AM/FM/CB/HAM/....

groan.

Back to reality. It's unfortunate you've had a bad experience with DLP so far. I had a hard time choosing between LCD and DLP for a front PJ, and it was pretty much contrast that did it for me. But that's me...not you

A few points from my limited experiences with DLP:
1- I have found that the dithering (lagging/smearing) effect you mentioned can be affected by the source. I've used an Apex (480i), a Sony DVP-315 (480i), a Panny RP-82 (480p), a Harman/Kardon DVD-31 (480p), an XBOX (480i/480p) and a Cox Motorola HD/DVR (720p/1080i) to feed my MT700 pj. I haven't, to my best recollection, noticed any (noticeable) dithering artifacts on HD or with the RP-82. The only thing I can pick up on them for the most part is Rainbow effect (which I am *very* susceptible to, but live with ).

The sony DVD player and the apex, however, were *very* bad in this department depending on the source material. The Xbox looks fine on Burnout3 (racing game), but Halo has many dithering issues at times with the very quick movement. Since I've seen differences depending on the source, I would suggest trying to narrow things down by using a quality dvd-player or recorded HD (if possible) to do your comparisons.

2- About eyestrain. I've watched hours of different material on my setup and have induced some eyestrain (feeling crappy, almost a headache, etc). But, this hasn't happened on HD, or during my Firefly SD DVDs (very rough tv quality) that I watch over and over (yes I'm a geek, but go see the movie when it comes out). I haven't had a problem on SD cable or other movie DVDs (Incredibles) either. But, when I play Xbox I get tired of it *very* quickly. It's kind of odd. I do feel my setup is a little too bright and that may play a part in it. I'll probably grab an ND2 filter to cut it down.

But anyhow, I've heard stories about display setups in stores with hi-gain screens that are just too bright and fatiguing. The brightness of the PJ contrasted with the darkness of the dim room isn't easy on the eyes. Were the LCDs and Plasmas in the same dim area? If not, it may mean your eye was just working too hard in the dark space with the PJ. Just something to keep in mind and I think it would apply to LCD pj's also. I may install a dim backlight behind my own PJ screen to help out my eyes.

Okay - So what's my point? There are a lot of factors at play here other than just LCD vs DLP. You know what you're doing and you're a very discriminating customer, so I encourage you to give both techs a couple tries if you can. Hopefully it'll help you double check yourself and the equipment and find what will be best for you back in your apartment - where you are in control of the environment.

Phew. Time for bed!

(awesome replies in the subwoofer thread, but I need to get to sleep - I will get to that thread tomorrow!)

[Jonnyozero3]

Update - Hey Nicholas, one of the AVS forum guys came over to check out my MT700. He had previously seen one of the Infocus 4805's and suffered bad eyestrain/headaches. We watched the MT700 for about 2 hours on different material (Nemo, Master n Commander, Pirates of the Carrib, Incredibles, HD), and he found that he didn't get any eyestrain at all. I still find my setup a tad too bright and a little fatiguing, but he said it was much better than the 4805. He also didn't see any rainbows while I still do

Anyhow, I don't think this is a plus for the MT700 or a knock on the 4805 - it's more a validation in my eyes that its the setup that counts. I think eyestrain is really only induced by a too-bright setup, and that can be dealt with.

Phew, okay, good luck searching! Keep me updated on your search, I'm interested to see how it turns out for you. Also - I may sound like I am defending DLP, but I'm really impartial in all this. I think each tech has it's tradeoffs and it's just best to evaluate as fairly as possible!

[jimsiff]

Nick,

Another thing to consider: Are you verifying at least basic calibration settings before demoing the PJs? I remember that you used your sound meter to level match speakers during your audition process. You should consider taking a DVD with the THX Optimizer so you can tweak the PJs basic output before you start the demo. Don't trust a dealer to properly calibrate TVs or PJs before they show them off to the public.

I remember noticing some dithering effects on my Samsung when watching HD Without A Trace on CBS. The opening credits have a birds eye view of the New York skyline with lots of straight lines and sharp contrasts moving across the screen. Since calibrating the set and turning off all video enhancements (DNR, DNiE, etc) the image is much better and I no longer see dithering.

You could always step up to a Runco 3 chip DLP. I'd just about guarantee you'd be happy with that.

[jeh]

the extensive research i did before my projector purchase wore me out...i decided to quit thinking and go with the infocus x1 and i couldn't be happier. honestly, i am 100% satisfied with it.

[Nicholas Mosher]

I brought AVIA with me and tweaked all the settings such as contrast/brightness/tint, etc. I couldn't see the Rainbow Effect, but the dithering and eyestrain was just too much. The blacks were definetly superior though. LCD based units in the same area didn't affect me in these ways, although the black levels were worse. Although I'm not considering RPTV, anyone interested in LCD RPTV's should check out the Hitachi Ultravision lines. They were simply spectacular!

I'm kinda turned off from DLP now and leaning towards the LCD based Sanyo PLV-Z3 PJ, but I haven't completely ruled DLP out, as I'm always open to change. Coincidently though, the Sanyo is just under $2k, so my screen budget will also increase .

Next Friday (not tomorrow) I will hopefully be ordering my second SVS 16-46PC+. My audio setup will then be "Finished", and I can start squirrling away for my PJ.