Svs Pb10-isd

[Nicholas Mosher]

My CBM-170 review was starting to go off-topic, so I'll start this thread.

Received the SVS PB10-ISD today. UPS guy almost busted a nut getting it off the truck (75lbs). Nice and double boxed, and protected by foam corner braces. Only setup problem was getting the bass management set for DVD-A/SACD. The Denon DVD-2900's LFE channel is 15dB down for DVD-A/SACD (for some unknown reason... the manual even states it will do this). Level control is limited to -10dB to 0dB. So I adjusted the five main channels to -10dB which got me within 5dB. I got the sub matched with the mains by boosting it 5dB with the Outlaw pre/pro's analog volume control. Unfortunately this means when I use the 2900s digital out to the 950, I have to cut that 5db boost on the 950 or the sub will run hot for movies. But I did it this way so I never have to screw with the gain knob on the sub. Gain is set at a hair over 60% by the way. I'll have to wait for a friend to come over before I can properly set phase and do a full FR measurement.

Haven't really got a chance to open it up, but I did verify a solid 20Hz with AVIA. More to come tomorrow...

Although I lent my camera out, I do have my miniDV sony which will take 1 megapixel shots. I'll have some pics tomorrow.

[Eddie Horton]

You are more than well on your way to having a very solid system. Let us know how you feel about it's music and movie performance when you finish getting it calibrated.

[Nicholas Mosher]

Hmmmmm... mixed results.

First off, here are some pictures...
I loaned out my nice camera, so these are taken with my miniDV camcorder...
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/pb10isd-1.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/pb10isd-2.jpg
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/pb10isd-3.jpg

Initial Impressions.

After working most of the bugs out last night, I used AVIA to get the phase set. I also re-verified the fact that this sub hits a solid 20Hz, pretty impressive for such a "little" tyke. The enclosure is actually bigger than 90% of the enclosures at my local hifi store

The finish is pretty nice on it, with good seams, even better than the Ascend CBM-170s in my setup. In fact, the texture is almost identical to the Ascends. The RCA input on the back seems a bit small in diameter. My interconnect has a screw down compression collar that gives a white knuckle grip on my components, but even fully screwed down the connection on the SVS can still be rotated. The knobs for gain/phase are proper size and have a nice resistance to their movement.

My first movie had to be the DTS track on Master and Commander. Infamous "Chapter 4" has some good bass. I found that while the sub certainly captured the cannonfire, it was more like being punched by a boxing glove than a bare fist. It seemed to handle single cannonfire alone quite well, but when things got down and dirty with multiple cannons and the ship falling apart it fell into a slight rumble. The chest thumping impact was lost, and a room rumbling hum took over. I could still make out the individual cannon shots, but they were blended with the other impacts and seemed to lose their punch.

Next was Pod Racing, Episode I. I experienced similar things here. At 59:40 where they zoom in on the pod racer engines, the low-frequency drone blends perfectly with the higher frequency whine. The individual flybys also sounded good. But during complex bass scenes such as when the racer falls victim to sebulba at 64:06, the initial clarity falls into mushy rumble as the scene develops.

Lord of the Rings: FOTR. When Sauron's finger hits the ground at the beginning of the film, the PB10-ISD has no trouble capturing the impact, but it was more like being hit with a pillow than a fist. Still better than most subs I've heard that cost much more.

Lord of the Rings: ROTK. Frodos heart-beat in Mt. Doom was there in all its glory, but it was definetly loose. It also lacked the devastating impact like Saurons finger impact did in LOTR. The oliphant collision had similar results.

Onto some DVD-A/SACD...

Telarc's SACD Classical Sampler #2. Rondeau from Abdelazer with the Empire Brass Quartet and a Pipe Organ sounded great. The organ was very well fleshed out and I ended up repeating it 4 times I loved it so much. Beethoven's Symphony #9 by The Atlanta Symphony Orchestra/Chorus had good solo percussion hits, but when everything rolled together harmony became bass chaos. Just one loud rumble. Very dissapointed on this one.

Diana Krall: Love Scenes (DVD-A). Individual bass chords sounded a little too warm but were set aside as the real focus is Diana. Soon I grew used to it and didn't notice as much. Unfortunately during some fast sections the bass got congested and I lost that immersed feeling.

Sting: Brand New Day (DVD-A). There is alot of bass on this disc. This is when I first noticed the PB10 actually drawing attention to itself. On track one "A Thousand Years", I actually spent 4hrs trying 3 different spots in my room for the sub (and recalibrated every time ), but I could still pick out the sub. I also tried running the sub at -3dB which helped a little, but still made the track all but un-listenable. Desert Rose was better, but also didn't have the same amount of bass.

More Thoughts
Compared to anything under $1000 I heard at my local shops, nothing can touch the PB10. It's extension is incredible for the price. During 90% of the films I watched, I was also happy with it. Its performance with pipe organs is also absolutely incredible. My enjoyment with it during DVD-A/SACD was less than satisfying unfortunately. The few annoying quirks it had during movies became magnified when all my attention was paid to the higher-rez audio. Fast heavy bass lacked clarity and impact. During real heavy bass playback, the PB10 also drew attention to itself regardless of location/level. It definetly has the capability to shake my room, but I'm looking for more than that.

I'm pretty critical of things, especially when I dole out hundreds of dollars for them. Often enough when I'm satisfied with things they go unsaid while I pick-apart other issues. The PB10-ISD is a good sub, but I was looking for a low-cost solution to my needs which apparently aren't going to be fulfilled with $475. I'm going to keep it a bit longer to see if I missed something, but I'm not leaning towards keeping it.

[bikeman]

Do you have an SPL meter? Some of these issues could be the result of the room and not the sub. Only one way to find out. Graph it.
Thanks for the follow-up.

David

[Lee Bailey]

Hey Nicholas, though I already posted this over at AVS, I'll add it here too. Be sure to check the screws on the driver for tightness. They should not be loose. Saw another post about someone with their PB10-ISD that had a similar problem with the way it sounded, and this resolved it for him.

[Nicholas Mosher]

Screws are tight Lee.

I definetly have a few peaks an EQ could solve (discovered these when I ran tests using my Avia disc and SPL meter during setup yesterday), but even with the peaks I can still tell how loose the bass gets when the action gets intense. Its not just loud reverberant (sp?) bass, its bass that runs together and doesn't stop/start between seperate impacts. It also has trouble with peak hits and lacks impact in the infrasonics.

I've eMailed SVS about it. Hopefully they'll have some recommendations.

My room plot btw...
http://mysite.verizon.net/nicholasmosher/room.jpg

[bikeman]

"I've eMailed SVS about it. Hopefully they'll have some recommendations."

That's the best stategy. My uneducated guess is room interactions and I'm sticking with it regardless of the evidence.

David

[Lou-the-dog]

Nicholas,

Have you tried pulling the sub out of the corner? Try moving it down the wall 6" at a time and see if quality improves.

Randy

[curtis]

.....I can still tell how loose the bass gets when the action gets intense. Its not just loud reverberant (sp?) bass, its bass that runs together and doesn't stop/start between seperate impacts. It also has trouble with peak hits and lacks impact in the infrasonics.

Is this with music or movie material? Also, infrasonics really do not have "impact"....that hit in the chest type stuff is around the 30-40Hz region.

[Eddie Horton]

I've seen you post in a couple of places about it lacking in the infrasonics. Maybe you want more output than a 10" sub can provide. This isn't a slam at the sub, but there's only so much you can do in the way of setup and calibration. It may be that you simply need to test a bigger sub.