Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 Review

[bikeman]

"that the special crossover used in the 340c is a well engineered band-aid to combat the problems of off-axis response and diffraction."

This should bring Dave F. out of the woodwork. Good job, Nic.

David

[davef]

This is a great discussion and since Bikeman called me out, I thought I better respond

Nicholas made some great points and I would have to agree with most of them. If you are after the most seamless and timbre matched multi-channel soundstage possible --- and (I must stress this) you won't be placing your center channel on top of or below a TV and you do not require the lower profile typical of a center channel... ideally, 5 of the exact same speakers are the best way to go, provided they are all mounted and positioned at the same height and with the exact same method (all on stands for example).

That being said, there are also some advantages even in Nicholas' setup to using the 340 center. As most of you know, the center channel is the most critical speaker in the home theater system and our 340 offers improved dynamics, lower distortion, deeper bass and the ability to play really loud if need be. Factors that I feel are just as important as a seamless soundstage.

In Nicholas' setup, it really comes down to personal preference and what your performance goals are; enhanced dynamics and improved clarity vs. a truly seamless soundstage with perfect timbre matching. There is no right or wrong here...

Now.... if you do intend to place the center on top of or below a TV (subjecting the speaker to all sorts of nasty boundary effects), the obvious choice should be the 340 center.

that the special crossover used in the 340c is a well engineered band-aid to combat the problems of off-axis response and diffraction

Well I don't like to think of it as a band-aid (hey, it was hundreds and hundreds of hours of work) it is the only way to compensate for the boundary effects caused by placing a loudspeaker on top of or below a television. There simply is no other way to do it, other than physically placing the speaker in another location (which can hurt the localization of dialogue, so dialogue sounds like it is coming from the TV and not somewhere else).

In this regard, I will say that our “band-aid” works quite well

[davef]

Hey Nicholas,

BTW, I LOVE the look of the CBM-170s on those SP-30 speaker stands!

[Nicholas Mosher]

Definetly not trying to knock any other speakers Dave has designed. By what I've experienced with the 170s, I'm sure the other offerings are just as great for their intended application.

I am curious about what you said about the 340 having greater clarity and improved dynamics with less distortion. Would I be right in guessing this is only when playing at high SPLs while pushing the lower end frequencies? I noticed the 340s have a slightly higher sensitivity in the specifications listing, while the 170 frequency response graph shows a flatter plot. Am I seeing two different tweeters between the 170 and 340 as well?

I was also hoping to get an opinion from you about the HSU subs you deal. How do they sound with 2ch music in your experience. I'm also curious about what equipment you use for your own personal HT & 2ch listening.

Thanks,
~Nick

EDIT: Thanks for the comment on the SP-30 stands. I thought they matched the CBM-170s quite nicely. They can't be adjusted like the OMNIMOUNT stands you deal, but you can fill them with sand or lead-shot which is cool. Apparently this is supposed to isolate the speaker in space. I'm going to experiment to see if there is any truth behind it.

[metalaaron]

nicholas, i would go ahead and get an stf2 with your 170s if you can. it's quite simply an astonishing 2.1 setup for music listening and a superb HT sub to boot. my first hsu sub was the stf2, and i absolutely loved the hsu sound. i brought the vtf3 mk2 into my ht after owning the stf2 for one year just to reach that 20Hz mark and gain some added slam when wanted. although, i'll admit that i don't use the full capability of the vtf3 mk2 by any means. i also think the integrated performance you'll gain from a 5.1 setup is just what you need.

cbm170s are diamonds in the rough. my 170s serve as stereo monitors in 2 rooms and then as rear surrounds in my HT / living room when needed. my 170s have a strange way of following me around the house. i would say that i listen to more stereo material with my 170s than any other speaker i've ever owned. i can't rave about them enough. imho - dave created a masterpiece. they're so right on the money.

i believe you should not have any buyer's remorse about your 170s as i feel that they are fully capable of extreme excellence for HT. (you definitely enjoy them and i only sense a 'what if') you have a spectacular setup w/ 5 identical speakers. the only thing you need is a nice sub to fulfill the .1 extension of the HT. complete that .1 then see what you think.

[Nicholas Mosher]

Metalaaron, I have no "what-if" doubts about my five CBM-170s. They are absolutely fantastic for the money. I definetly plan on adding a sub in the near future, but I'm still doing research and auditioning. I'd probably go straight for the VTF-3 MK2 if I went with HSU simply for the extension and headroom. Trying to find out more regarding its accuracy, speed, and ability to dissapear like the 170s.

Couldn't be more happy regarding the 170s though.

[metalaaron]

cool.
+/- 1db 18Hz to 125Hz. highly regarded in the sub $1k arena. the avg. linear response makes it a great choice for monitors w/ similar qualities. i recommend SPL adjustments. i believe it integrates w/ 170s to complete a very integrated 20Hz-20kHz range after SPL is adjusted on the sub. SPL meters are fun anyways. it's pretty cool to know what SPLs your vacuum cleaner will reach.

some believe speed is a myth. my only observation of the hsu speed is what i'd call accuracy. what i believe is a well controlled woofer combined with a well made enclosure and the right amplification makes it accurate. but, that would also go to describe the unique sound quality a hsu has, IMHO.

[DavidD]

Now.... if you do intend to place the center on top of or below a TV (subjecting the speaker to all sorts of nasty boundary effects), the obvious choice should be the 340 center.

Well I don't like to think of it as a band-aid (hey, it was hundreds and hundreds of hours of work) it is the only way to compensate for the boundary effects caused by placing a loudspeaker on top of or below a television. There simply is no other way to do it, other than physically placing the speaker in another location (which can hurt the localization of dialogue, so dialogue sounds like it is coming from the TV and not somewhere else).

In this regard, I will say that our “band-aid” works quite well

So...if I plan to put the center on a stand in front of the TV, then you would not recommend the 340 center? Would you recommend getting a 340M or 170 in that case?