The Tower Discussion Thread!

[petmotel]

That's pretty cool. I love how this improvement was implemented into the current product, instead of releasing it in a completely new product (the super uber Tower that comes with more better, uh, stuff).

Jay, I apparently missed the news that you received another set of Towers. Wow! Are you using them in another system or are they for surrounds (e.g. five identical-performance speakers)? Either way, congrats!

I'm working on a larger area of our old farmhouse as a dedicated music/movie room. When that's finished, the new Towers will indeed be the rear channels of a 5.1 music/7.1 movie system.

Currently the new Towers are in my shop being used temporarily in a stereo system. Oppo 83SE, Anthem D1 pre/pro, Anthem MCA-20 amp, SVS PB-12Ultra. Hard to believe looking at the equipment list, it's all been retired from the theater system with the exception of the amp.

Jay

[Kisakuku]

That's pretty cool. I love how this improvement was implemented into the current product, instead of releasing it in a completely new product (the super uber Tower that comes with more better, uh, stuff).

Now we just need a Line Around The Front Baffle Upgrade Kit for existing Tower / Horizon owners.

[petmotel]

What would the effect of plugging the port on a Sierra Tower be? As mentioned in my last post I have a set doing temporary duty in my shop, and would like to plug the port to keep any errant rodent from trying to make them their own! I have a sub to use with them so I can take the crossover point up to 80 Hz or so.

Jay

[Kisakuku]

What would the effect of plugging the port on a Sierra Tower be? As mentioned in my last post I have a set doing temporary duty in my shop, and would like to plug the port to keep any errant rodent from trying to make them their own! I have a sub to use with them so I can take the crossover point up to 80 Hz or so.

Jay

You should probably use Q-plugs type A for plugging the ports. They will limit the bass extension a bit. You can see frequency response curves for Sierra-1's with both Q-plug types here.

[BrianBoru]

thanks for the comments. I too felt that while the golden ear had good width dispersion...it was vertically challenged....It sounds like your pretty happy with the dispersion, sound stage and sweet spot with the NRt's.... it would be interesting to hear from other Sierra owners with the RAAL what they have experienced....both vertical and horizontal.
...

VERTICAL DISPERSION ISSUE - I've seen this question raised a number of times in this thread, but have yet to see a real answer. I am concerned because I am designing a home theater where there is a difference of 28 inches between the height of the front row and the rear row. Without good vertical dispersion, the sound levels from the tweeter will be quite different between these rows. In particular, the front row seats will be 24 inches below the platform behind the AT screen where the speakers will stand. Hence, the tweeters of the Towers would be 24 + 34 = 54 inches above the floor. And the first row will only be about 8 feet from the speakers (I like to be close to the screen :-)). So, I am concerned that there may be too much roll-off in the off- axis response or the tweeters in this position.

So, would someone please comment on the vertical dispersion of your RAAL tweeters. Better yet, does Dave have any measurements on this?

If the tweeters do roll off much in the vertical axis, I may do better to use all Horizon speakers behind my screen, as they will not be so high above the first row.

Thanks,

Brian

[pierreterrier]

Brian, the way I experience my raal towers is optimum sitting ear high wth raals. Two feet up or down and i lose the clarity. Hence not the best for a party, but best for an audiophile like me, sitting in the sweet spot to drool. All my listening is music only. Raal is great horizontal but has vertical limitations for sure.

[FirstReflect]

I can only offer my own subjective listening tests as testimonial, but from my experiments in getting nearfield to my RAAL and NrT speakers and adjusting my listening angles, I can say that the RAAL tweeters definitely have wider horizontal dispersion than virtually all other ribbons I've heard, but their vertical dispersion is limited.

When I say "limited", it's not as though there is no sound at all when moving off axis vertically. It is not a laser beam -- haha. But there is a pretty obvious shift in timbre and a roll off of the high frequencies once you get even about 15° off axis in the vertical plain. Again, this is just from subjective listening in my case. I found that my custom, vertically oriented, "low-profile" Horizon RAAL speakers maintain very uniform horizontal dispersion even as wide as about 45° off axis, which is just unheard of for a ribbon. My custom "skinny" Horizon Center is much wider than normal (about 40" from left to right). As such, its horizontal dispersion, subjectively, is not quite as wide in its uniformity; I found about 30° to either side, off axis, to be the uniform dispersion range. But for both of them, like I say, only about 15° vertically before the timbre changes.

The NrT, so far, I've found to be around 45° either side horizontally, and about 30° top or bottom vertically. The NrT is noticeably more uniform in its vertical dispersion vs the RAAL, at least in my experience and opinion.

I adore my RAAL-equipped speakers. I truly believe they're worth far more than every penny. The level of realism and clarity is simply unmatched in my listening experience. But all of my RAAL speakers are also using the Tower midrange driver with the phase plug. There's every chance that dedicated midrange driver is just as much responsible for the outstanding audio quality as the RAAL ribbon. My only NrT speakers are the Sierra-1, which uses a different mid-woofer, as well. So, my point is that I've not compared the Sierra Tower or Horizon that uses the NrT tweeter. The combination of the NrT and the dedicated midrange driver of the Tower and Horizon might end up being a lot closer in overall quality to my RAAL horizon speakers than, say, putting a RAAL in a Sierra-1, but using the Sierra-1's mid-woofer. The contribution to the sound quality made by the dedicated midrange driver should not be underestimate. That said, one of my test tracks includes a glockenspiel. That's pretty much all handled by the tweeter, and the RAAL ribbon absolutely nails that instrument in realism in a way that no other tweeter has for me, including the NrT

With two rows, the back row being elevated, your best placement option would likely be to have your Front speakers' tweeters just slightly below ear level for the front row, and then angled upwards slightly so that both the front and back rows will be within that +/- 15° vertical dispersion "window" of the tweeter. If using three Horizons across the front will allow you to use such a placement and angling, that is the way I would go, personally. You will not be disappointed AT ALL by using the Horizon as your Front 3 speakers. In fact, since it uses dual front slot ports vs. the rear port of the Towers, it might be an even better choice for placement behind an AT screen, since closer proximity to the front wall behind the speakers won't be as much of a concern with the front porting.

Finally, it IS entirely possible to have Dave make you Horizon speakers with a custom form factor. That's the route I went! Like I said, I got a "skinny" Center that is only 7.5" deep from front to back, but uses the standard 11" height. As a result, it is about 40" wide in order to maintain the same internal volume. And I also got a pair of vertical "low-profile" Horizons. Those are about 8" wide, 32.5" tall, and 11.5" deep. The tweeter is below the midrange driver, with the two woofers above and below the tweeter-midrange combo. So they're like a miniature Tower, or a HUGE bookshelf, depending on how you want to think about them. Point being, though, with those custom, vertical, "low-profile" Horizons, they have about the same width as a Tower, they're still vertical, and maintain the unusually wide horizontal dispersion, but the Tweeter is only about 15" from the bottom of the speaker because it's in the middle of the cabinet along with the midrange driver directly above it, rather than at the top of the cabinet as it is in the Tower.

Hope that helps

[davef]

What would the effect of plugging the port on a Sierra Tower be? As mentioned in my last post I have a set doing temporary duty in my shop, and would like to plug the port to keep any errant rodent from trying to make them their own! I have a sub to use with them so I can take the crossover point up to 80 Hz or so.

Jay

Jay, in your situation -- instead of plugging the port, I would recommend installing a screen over the port tubes. Your basic window screen material will work quite well.

[davef]

VERTICAL DISPERSION ISSUE - I've seen this question raised a number of times in this thread, but have yet to see a real answer. I am concerned because I am designing a home theater where there is a difference of 28 inches between the height of the front row and the rear row. Without good vertical dispersion, the sound levels from the tweeter will be quite different between these rows. In particular, the front row seats will be 24 inches below the platform behind the AT screen where the speakers will stand. Hence, the tweeters of the Towers would be 24 + 34 = 54 inches above the floor. And the first row will only be about 8 feet from the speakers (I like to be close to the screen :-)). So, I am concerned that there may be too much roll-off in the off- axis response or the tweeters in this position.

So, would someone please comment on the vertical dispersion of your RAAL tweeters. Better yet, does Dave have any measurements on this?

If the tweeters do roll off much in the vertical axis, I may do better to use all Horizon speakers behind my screen, as they will not be so high above the first row.

Thanks,

Brian

Hi Brian,

Dispersion is directly related to the size of the radiating area in that particular plane. For example, for vertical dispersion, the smaller the radiating area (length) the greater the dispersion. For horizontal dispersion, the smaller the width, the greater the dispersion. It really doesn't matter what type of transducer it is...

Having said that, it all comes down to the listening angle in that particular plane. For the 70mm long ribbons, I generally recommend a vertical listening angle of +/- 10 degrees. Let me know how far back from the speakers the first and second row is, and the distance between each row -- and I can run some calculations for you. Please PM or email the info. Thanks!

[FirstReflect]

Well there ya go! Nothing beats confirmation from Dave, the man himself!

I was literally just going by ear, and, at best, using the compass and level apps on my iPhone to eyeball the angles -- haha. But it's nice to see that, even using my very rough and subjective methods, I didn't end up looking like a crazy person with the answer I gave earlier

The extra +/- 5° leeway that I mentioned -- it's important to know that, as I said, I was basing that off of nearfield trials. As you move farther away, even just those 5° difference can translate into quite a lot more height! So I'd certainly listen to Dave's more conservative range of angles. Although, knowing Dave's approach and honesty, I'd be willing to bet that if you stayed within +/- 15° vertically, it'd still sound fantastic But, yes, from considerably farther away, it might be more noticeable. Combining my subjective tests with Dave's advice, I'd be extremely confident in that +/- 10° window