DVD-A vs SACD

[jimsiff]

It also seems that the PCM Master>SACD issue will be diminishing as DSD mastering becomes more prevalant in studios.

http://www.ambisonic.net/sacdvdada.html

Well, now I'm confused. This article says that even DSD mastering converts to a quasi-PCM for DSP processing like EQ, etc. This article also mentions that SACD may be superior to DVD-A for capturing live performances where no mixing/EQ work will occur between the original master and the final product, ie: classical recordings and other live performances.

[jimsiff]

Sometimes a single title comes out in both formats though. I assume they have the same mixes right?

I would say that if a title comes out on both formats at the same time they probably used the same mix and master. Even though a release may use the same mix and master, the recording levels of the CD vs. DVD-A vs. SACD may be different if all formats aren't transfered at the same levels. For instance, the Diana Krall "The Look of Love" release is about 4 db quieter on SACD than DVD-A. If it's a re-release all bets are of IMO... although I don't know if there's been any SACD or DVD-A releases that were subsequently released in the other format at a much later date.

There was an interesting article on Audioholics that talks about SACD vs DVD-A vs. CD. There were initial impressions that the CD and DVD-A of Diana Krall's album were audibly clipped in many places while the SACD was not. Chris Tham, the author was initially critical of DVD-A as being inferior to SACD. He seemed to recant that tone at the end of the article with a "late breaking news" note that said his test machines (Panny RP82 and Denon 2200) couldn't properly handle 0 db peaks and treated it as a clipped signal. The reason the SACD didn't have this problem is it's peaks were -6 db thus never hitting the 0 db flaw many players have.

All the information I posted in this thread were from links on the first page of an "SACD vs. DVD-A" search on Google. Try that and dive in.

[Kpt_Krunch]

Well - I'm not even close to knowing what I'm talking about here, but in my limited research of the formats, the DVD-A's can hold a lot more information, including pictures, video, etc. that an SACD can't. I have purchased many DVD-A titles from AIX records. These titles are recorded live (not 'live' as in a concert, but 'live' in a concert hall, ah, it's better to read it for yourselves at www.aixrecords.com that will explain everything). The DVD-A side of the DVD's have anywhere from 3.8 to 4.2 GB's of information, far more than an SACD could ever hold. To me that means no compression whatsoever, and with a properly calibrated, high-end system you could probably hear the difference.

I for one own many titles in both formats, and both sound terrific. The main difference though is that in cheap uni players (like my pioneer 563a), when setting the speakers to small, the frequency cutoff of for DVD-A is 200hz, whereas for SACD it is 120hz. Needless to say, on that particular player, the SACD's sound far superior than the DVD-A's do. Once I got my ICBM from Outlaw Audio though, it took care of everything and as already stated they both sound good now (but now using a Sammy HD-841).

[curtis]

Wow...great info!

I'll just say: "I like them both....a lot!"

[Nicholas Mosher]

On the Diana Krall "Love Scenes" DVD-A I can hear the saliva in her mouth when she parts her lips or sings a word that ends in K. Pretty good detail if you ask me

[curtis]

Are you sure you that just isn't some kind of fantasy of yours?

[Nicholas Mosher]

Are you sure you that just isn't some kind of fantasy of yours?

She is quite easy on the eyes...



Seriously though, you can hear when her vocal chords fire up when she transitions from a whisper, and her breath change as she stresses notes. And indeeed you can hear the saliva in her mouth as she opens it, and during words where her tounge touches the roof of her mouth. Incredible detail!

[curtis]

Oh....I totally understand.

[Nicholas Mosher]

Just ordered a couple more titles tonight on Amazon...

Queen: A Night at the Opera, DVD-A
Immersion, DVD-A

Tomorrow I'm going to order a few titles from Telarc on SACD. Amazon has big delays on them once you add them to your cart...

LAGQ: Latin
Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture
Berlioz Requiem
Dupre, Franck & Widor

The following review of Immersion at Amazon is what got me to pull the trigger. Its an older DVD-A, but sounds intriguing...

This amazing DVD-Audio release explores surround sound more extensively than any other DVD-Audio that I've heard (or know of). I've never experienced anything like it. All the content here is new, and was put together especially for surround sound, unlike most other DVD-Audio recordings which tend to be re-releases of older pop/rock stuff. There are 13 different, short pieces here. In the first piece Live/Work, the performer (Pamela Z) provides a verbal, circular tour of her studio (a good way to see how consistent your surround setup is). In Tank (by Bruce Odland), you hear a trumpet playing inside a water tank with a long echo, along with some percussion. This is one of the most realistic depictions of a three-dimensional space I've ever heard. White Turbulence 2000 (by Maggi Payne) slowly changes with some complex sound processing. Luong Hai Ky Mi Gia (Carl Stone) moves really fast, with fragments of somewhat recognizable sound zooming all around you. The Housatonic at Henry Street (by Phil Kline) is a moving, haunting piece that uses multiple boomboxes and street sounds to evoke a street corner in New York City. A piece by Ellen Fullman uses layers of recordings of an instrument she invented that has strings about 100 feet long. Propeller Island (Lukas Ligeti) has different kinds of colorful percussion instruments tapping out different rhythms. Steel is attractive and is performed on the Quadrachord, an instrument invented by the composer Paul Dresher. Sayonara Sirenade 20/21 (by Pauline Oliveros) uses older electronic music sounds in a surround sound setting. Twilight's Dance (by Paul Dolden) has driving rhythms that lead to a big, exciting ending. 2000 presents intense "noise" music that apparently is typical of the composer Merzbow. Sighs and Murmurs, A Sea Song (by Ingram Marshal) is a lanquid, calm piece. The recording ends with Eclipse Variations, a lovely work by Meredith Monk that has layers of sustained voices that float in and out, creating an other-worldly ambiance. Visually, each piece has several slides that change as the piece progresses. (This is actually more advanced than some of the other rock DVD-Audio releases I've encountered.) There is also a full booklet that gives thorough info about all these composers and their pieces.

I listened to Metallica's Black Album on CD the other day for the first time in years. It was definetly nostalgic, but I don't think I'm going to get the DVD-A version.

[Nicholas Mosher]

Placed an order with "Tower Records" and saved about $5 along with Fed-Ex 2-Day at no extra charge...
They were all in stock so the real test is whether or not I will actually get them all.

Tchaikovsky 1812 Overture SACD
A Mormon Tabernacle Choir Christmas SACD (Neighbors oughtta love this in April... )
Berlioz Requiem SACD
LAGQ: Latin SACD
Dupre, Franck & Widor SACD

You have to be careful choosing between SACDs and redbooks. They both look the same except for label number and price.