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Thread: Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 Review

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 Review

    I've spent the past four days listening to the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170s and feel I can give a review on them. I'd say that I have about 48hrs on them (pretty much became a hermit the past week) listening to two channel redbooks, DD5.1, and DTS5.1. For equipment I'm using a Denon DVD-2900 optical player, Outlaw Audio Model 950 pre/pro, Rotel RMB-1075 amplifier (120Wx5), and Outlaw Audio interconnects.



    I received one speaker single-boxed, while the other four came double-boxed in pairs. They were all packaged well, and no damage was found. The first thing I noticed when picking these small speakers up was their density. The cabinet really is rock-solid, and I can't detect any noises interjected into the sound by it. The exterior of the cabinet is quite plain looking. A black box with a flat textured finish. Personally I like the simplicity of it. If you're looking for Rosewood with pewter inlays, this isn't your speaker. From my height and seating position, I found that 30" stands place the tweeter at ear level. The StudioTech SP-30 steel stands have a similar design and finish to the CBM-170s at a reasonable price.

    The front left and right speakers are angled directly at my seating position, while the surrounds are to my sides. As I said before, all of the speakers are at the same height, with the tweeters at ear level. Output was calibrated using the AVIA calibration DVD along with a Rat Shack SPL meter. I managed to get all channels calibrated within 1dB of each other from my seating position. I don't have a sub yet, so all speakers were set as Large. I found the audible low frequency extension in my room to be 55Hz, pretty good compared with the specs given by Ascend.

    I started off with Master and Commander in 5.1 DTS. Immediately I was impressed with the seamless soundstage. The depth and ambiance was fantastic. The speakers dissapeared, and the walls of my room fell away. I was surrounded by the roaring ocean. Now I've come to believe through experimentation that the most important part of creating these effects are speaker placement and calibration. However, you have to have a good source, clear processing/amplification, and speakers that have quiet cabinets with a tone you like. Poorly mixed 5.1 tracks easily destroy this effect, and you feel like you're listening to speakers again. Some films even have scenes with good sound spaced with scenes with poor sound. This actually becomes distracting as the soundstage expands and contracts. I was dissapointed to find one of my favorite films Ronin does this in some scenes.

    After letting the speakers break in, I'm still impressed with the midbass and midrange. It is some of the clearest, accurate sound I've ever heard. My other speaker consideration, the Paradigm Studio 20 isn't nearly as good in this area. On the tweeter end, I honestly have to say that I prefer the Studio 20's, but the difference in quality between the upper range is small compared to the difference in quality of the midrange. Even if the price were equal, I would still take the Ascends for the midbass/midrange. Drums, pianos, doors, and footsteps sound so real its incredible. Sometimes when someone knocks on a door I have to pause the film to make sure I don't have company waiting on the front porch, especially when its an offscreen sound effect that I didn't see an actor do. Fantastic!

    In two channel recordings, I notice a huge difference in quality between older recordings and new. I also found that some of my artist compilation albums I've picked up in the checkout aisles have very poor transfers (which erks me). Listening to Hell Freezes Over, I had to get up and make sure the center channel was off because the imaging was so good. This effect carries over into 5 channel audio to create incredible panning effects of bullets and other objects that move across the room. While watching Little Nemo, I noticed for the first time during some scenes that the soundtrack pans back and forth between the fronts and surrounds. The effect is subtle, but gives you a floating sensation which adds greatly to the films feel. Little Nemo definetly has my favorite sound mix to date. I haven't gotten any DVD-A or SACD discs yet, but I have nothing but high expectations for them. I definetly need a sub because some instruments bottom out below what the 170s can produce. This affects the realism when it comes to critical listening in two channel.

    I'm quite happy with the Ascends, and have no intentions of sending them back. I think the next step for me would be Thiels, but at their price point ($3000/pr) I'm quite satisfied with my 170s for the time being. Two thumbs up!

  2. #2
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    Hi Nicholas,

    Thanks for the excellent review and I am really happy that you are enjoying the system!
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  3. #3
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    Nice review Nicholas.

    I am creeping closer and closer to pulling the trigger on some Ascends. I am curious as to why you did not go with the 340 center.

    the guys at Ascend highly recommended it to me

    thanks

  4. #4
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    Thumbs up

    The ideal multichannel audio setup (IMHO) uses the same speakers all around at the same height (unless you're a fan of bipole diffused sound). When calibrated correctly, this will give you the most seamless soundstage. After playing around with center channels at hifi stores, I found that having identical speakers on axis with the "sweet-spot" all around gives the best results. The only problem a setup like this presents is the limitations it places on your display options. No tube-tvs or rear-projection. I plan on going with a 42" 480p plasma (in a few months when I save enough dough).

    I highly recommend the 170s. For my 18'x10' room they are more than enough.

  5. #5
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    Dolby Labs recommends 5 identical speakers (assuming you're running 5.1) for multichannel audio. How often you will be watching movies will be a contributing factor in whether you opt for a dedicated center channel speaker (CMT 340c). DeftOne, the guys at Ascend put a lot of time and effort (timbre matching) into the development of the 340. I personally run 4 170s and a 340 center for movies and SACD/DVD-a and am totally pleased with the results.
    "same as it ever was"

  6. #6
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    While I haven't listened to the 340m or 340c, I'm sure they sound excellent given the performance of the 170, and the fact that they share the same drivers.

    I personally notice the difference when placing a speaker down below or up above a TV. I gave this issue a higher level of importance over other Home Theater factors (display options, room decor). While I haven't tested the 340c with 170s, I did notice a difference when I auditioned similar setups from Paradigm, B&W, and Thiel (4 Bookshelves w/an M-T-M or horizontally styled center). My personal preference was 5 identical monitors at equal height, and as Ben mentioned, is recommended for many sound formats such as DD, 5.1 DVD-A, and 5.1 SACD. I believe DTS and THX also recommend this speaker arrangement with the exception of the surrounds.

    The best thing to do if you're interested is to try it out at a local hifi store, or order both a 170 and a 340 for the center, and choose which one you like best. Then you can either ship one back, or save it if you ever want to upgrade to 6.1 audio such as DTS-ES discreet.

    One thing I didn't mention above is that when first getting into this I was nervous that 120W wouldn't be enough power for drawn-out action sequences. After auditioning other speakers with similar sensitivity ratings to the 170, I found that 100W was plenty. My 120W amplifier powers them with spades. In my room (18' x 10' once again) 85dB reference levels are acheived easily with 120W and no audible distortion, maybe some slight congestion in the upper range during complex action scenes compared with speakers at 10x the price (like the Thiels I love). This is when effects are peaking at SPLs that make my ears ring. At normal volumes they sound near-perfect.

    Anyways, I don't think you can go wrong with the 170s, and I'm sure the 340s are also impressive.
    Last edited by Nicholas Mosher; 03-03-2005 at 10:02 AM.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=Nicholas Mosher]While I haven't listened to the 340m or 340c, I'm sure they sound excellent given the performance of the 170, and the fact that they share the same drivers.

    I personally notice the difference when placing a speaker down below or up above a TV. I gave this issue a higher level of importance over other Home Theater factors (display options, room decor). While I haven't tested the 340c with 170s, I did notice a difference when I auditioned similar setups from Paradigm, B&W, and Thiel (4 Bookshelves w/an M-T-M or horizontally styled center).


    If one of the folks from Ascend dosen't answer this, I'll repost Dave F's detailed explanation of the 340C and why it's different from some of the other centers you've listened to and why it's a sonic match for the 170's. It was designed for the 170's, not the 340M's.

    My personal preference was 5 identical monitors at equal height, and as Ben mentioned, is recommended for many sound formats such as DD, 5.1 DVD-A, and 5.1 SACD. I believe DTS and THX also recommend this speaker arrangement with the exception of the surrounds.

    Nothing wrong with using identical speakers in identical setups but you're one of the few who has that option. The 340C gives us the same result without having to place the a speaker stand and speaker below the display. How it looks is really, really important to SWMBO.

    David

  8. #8
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    I hear you on the Wife Acceptance Factor Dave. My father is in Mortal Kombat with my Step Mother over a big-screen TV. I like those shirts that say...
    My wife said it was her or fishing... boy I'll miss her.
    They should make one for Home Theater!

    I haven't A/B'd the 340c vs 170 so I can't give an official comparison review, so anything I'm about to say should be taken with a grain of salt. I would have to say (just from what I've read here, and my experiences auditioning various center channel speakers), that the special crossover used in the 340c is a well engineered band-aid to combat the problems of off-axis response and diffraction. How well it works, I don't know, but I'd say to those that do have the option to go with five monitors (whether 340 Mains or 170s) that you should try both ways to see which you like best.

  9. #9
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    "that the special crossover used in the 340c is a well engineered band-aid to combat the problems of off-axis response and diffraction."

    This should bring Dave F. out of the woodwork. Good job, Nic.

    David

  10. #10
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    This is a great discussion and since Bikeman called me out, I thought I better respond

    Nicholas made some great points and I would have to agree with most of them. If you are after the most seamless and timbre matched multi-channel soundstage possible --- and (I must stress this) you won't be placing your center channel on top of or below a TV and you do not require the lower profile typical of a center channel... ideally, 5 of the exact same speakers are the best way to go, provided they are all mounted and positioned at the same height and with the exact same method (all on stands for example).

    That being said, there are also some advantages even in Nicholas' setup to using the 340 center. As most of you know, the center channel is the most critical speaker in the home theater system and our 340 offers improved dynamics, lower distortion, deeper bass and the ability to play really loud if need be. Factors that I feel are just as important as a seamless soundstage.

    In Nicholas' setup, it really comes down to personal preference and what your performance goals are; enhanced dynamics and improved clarity vs. a truly seamless soundstage with perfect timbre matching. There is no right or wrong here...

    Now.... if you do intend to place the center on top of or below a TV (subjecting the speaker to all sorts of nasty boundary effects), the obvious choice should be the 340 center.

    that the special crossover used in the 340c is a well engineered band-aid to combat the problems of off-axis response and diffraction
    Well I don't like to think of it as a band-aid (hey, it was hundreds and hundreds of hours of work) it is the only way to compensate for the boundary effects caused by placing a loudspeaker on top of or below a television. There simply is no other way to do it, other than physically placing the speaker in another location (which can hurt the localization of dialogue, so dialogue sounds like it is coming from the TV and not somewhere else).

    In this regard, I will say that our “band-aid” works quite well
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

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