Fun ELX Demo Today

[swadin]

Dave, I own Sierra-2s for 3 years now and have been very satisfied with them. Before buying the S-2s, I have auditioned Kef R3s. Even though I liked the bass on R3s for some songs, I chose S-2s for their clarity on the highs.
As the new Kef R11 metas were released recently, I am wondering if you guys had chance to compare ELX towers with the R11/R11 metas. My cousin owns regular R11 and I am very impressed how they sound. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

[davef]

Dave, I own Sierra-2s for 3 years now and have been very satisfied with them. Before buying the S-2s, I have auditioned Kef R3s. Even though I liked the bass on R3s for some songs, I chose S-2s for their clarity on the highs.
As the new Kef R11 metas were released recently, I am wondering if you guys had chance to compare ELX towers with the R11/R11 metas. My cousin owns regular R11 and I am very impressed how they sound. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

I listened to the R11 Meta at a dealer so a direct comparison against our ELX was not possible. That stated, I liked them - I thought they did everything well but I will say I much prefer the ribbon tweeter in our ELX Ribbon Tower, there is character to this RAAL ribbon that is just not there with other speakers. I also preferred the bass in our ELX and the soundstage width is a bit narrow on the R11 Meta compared to our ELX Ribbons. So much depends on the room and placement, but our ELX give up nothing to the R11...

If your are somewhat local, give us a call and come have a listen

[CarloM]

No more need to leak the Klippel for the B100s...Erin just reviewed them and his Klippel measurements pretty much align with the model you measured, Dave.

[davef]

No more need to leak the Klippel for the B100s...Erin just reviewed them and his Klippel measurements pretty much align with the model you measured, Dave.

Thanks for the head's up! Erin's experience listening to the B100 perfectly aligned with my own.

Our NFS measurements are also nearly identical. Our measurements showed slightly more bass extension and just a tad bit less high frequency boost, but otherwise nearly identical.

I inverted and overlaid our measurements on top of Erin's.

mlcompare.jpg

[hometheater]

Not sure this is the best place for this question but almost all review sites put such an emphasis on EQ now. Erin is probably more realistic than others about using EQ to "fix" any speaker.

I used to believe EQ was this magic method to dramatically improve sound quality. I would always use the Audyssey on my Denon x4400h the moment I do anything to a system.

That is until I upgraded my speakers to the Sierra-2EX V2. Based on Dave's advice to limit EQ only to a room's transition frequency (i.e. < 300 hz), I found out the speakers sound so much smoother and cleaner without most of the EQ. To me ears, there was like an edge or harshness to the sound with the EQ running full frequency.

Without the EQ above 300 hz, the sound is just so much cleaner and "pure" as if the performer was there playing in the room. I'm not sure the reason for this but I'm curious why.

With this experience, I think there's way to much hype with the different EQ types such as Dirac, Ymao (or whatever that is), etc. going around now but I guess to each their own. IMO, all you need is below 300 hz and that's it.

[msound]

Not sure this is the best place for this question but almost all review sites put such an emphasis on EQ now. Erin is probably more realistic than others about using EQ to "fix" any speaker.

I used to believe EQ was this magic method to dramatically improve sound quality. I would always use the Audyssey on my Denon x4400h the moment I do anything to a system.

That is until I upgraded my speakers to the Sierra-2EX V2. Based on Dave's advice to limit EQ only to a room's transition frequency (i.e. < 300 hz), I found out the speakers sound so much smoother and cleaner without most of the EQ. To me ears, there was like an edge or harshness to the sound with the EQ running full frequency.

Without the EQ above 300 hz, the sound is just so much cleaner and "pure" as if the performer was there playing in the room. I'm not sure the reason for this but I'm curious why.

With this experience, I think there's way to much hype with the different EQ types such as Dirac, Ymao (or whatever that is), etc. going around now but I guess to each their own. IMO, all you need is below 300 hz and that's it.

Back in the days when all we had was Audyssey, I was never happy with how it made my speakers sound. I would spend countless hours, more like weeks obsessing about trying to tune it to perfection, but years later perfection never came.

I then upgraded to an Anthem MRX which had ARC room correction and boy was I amazed on the difference compared to Audyssey. I was finally happy with the end result of an automatic room correction. Was it perfect, no, but it was very good.

Years later I had the opportunity to try Dirac and it was definitely the best automatic room correction yet. Honestly I can't live without it now. Once you hear what it can do, you can not unhear it. There is a lot of a learning curve to dial things in because it is extremely flexible but it worth it. Eqing 20hz to 20khz NEVER sounded good to me on any eq software, except Dirac, as it is a different animal. Dirac cleans up the bass, making it tighter and puncher. Cleans up and opens up the soundstage making instruments and singer locations more define.

[hometheater]

Thanks for sharing your experience but it would be quite costly to upgrade my receiver then have pay extra for the Dirac upgrade if I stayed with Denon.

What type of speakers are you using and have they been NFS optimized like the Sierra 2EX V2s?

[hometheater]

Based on your profile, you have ELX Towers and Horizon so definitely NFS optimized.

Do you hear a big difference if you limit Dirac to < 300hz with those speakers?

[James]

I've had good luck with a measurement mic, REW and a Behringer digital parametric equalizer.

Total cost around $300.

It's not automatic though - you have to measure, use REW to generate eq settings and then put those into the Behringer.

And there are different ways you can use them.

I'd recommend the B&K house curve - it's their representation of an ideal speaker in an ideal room. It has a slight boost in the bass, then a gently curving decrease. I've been using it with these settings - 30hz 0, 125hz 0, 500hz -1db, 1000hz -2db, 2000hz -3db, 5000hz -4db, 10000hz -5db, 20000hz -6db.

Dayton Audio - UMM-6 USB Measurement Microphone
REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software
Behringer | Product | FBQ2496

I have a pair of the older Sierra Towers with NrT dome tweeters, so they're not Klippel optimized. My setup might not work for you - I just realized you're using a receiver. With my old school system, I put the Behringer between the preamp and the amp.

[msound]

Based on your profile, you have ELX Towers and Horizon so definitely NFS optimized.

Do you hear a big difference if you limit Dirac to < 300hz with those speakers?

I actually have the Towers v1 but my upgrade kit is coming in a few weeks. Changed it a bit early . On the v1 it makes a big difference for sure. Maybe the ELX will require less of Dirac working the higher and mid frequencies, but that's just a guess as they are NFS optimized. With the v1 without Dirac my frequency slope is just too flat and with a bump in the mid frequencies causes a too forward sound and too much highs in my room.