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Thread: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

  1. #871
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,006

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sccb View Post
    There are differences when moving the speakers or my listening positions, but the primary difference (particularly in the bass and mid-range) when moving from seated height to standing doesnít seem to changed based on moving the speakers in or out or my distance from the speakers. The overall change in response between ear level and standing is quite noticeable and not something I had with my 2EXs. I simply happened to notice the change when getting up from my seated position which had never happened with the 2EX as the changes with it are much more subtle and require more carful listening to notice.

    Iím at a loss for the cause, but I prefer the sound of the speakers when standing, so hoping there is a way to get that sound when seated.
    Hi sccb,

    In the frequency range you are describing, bass and lower mids, you would have to be at a very extreme off-axis vertical angle to reach a point where the sound produced by the actual speaker would change.

    Please see here:



    In the bass and midbass range, you would have to at least be at a 50 degree off-axis vertical angle for the sound to change, and that is by only by 3dB. (challenging to hear)

    In the lower midrange, from 2kHz and lower, also at a 50 degree vertical angle.

    I am not saying you aren't hearing what you are, but it is not due to the speaker. There is obviously some form of destructive vertical null at your main listening height.

    Or...

    The LX has the widest vertical dispersion of any speaker we offer, depending on your floor and ceiling, you could be getting reflections. However, based on your description of what you are hearing, I doubt this because you are describing the sound as being "thin" at your main listening position which better correlates with destructive room modes because they affect bass and midbass frequencies.

    The LX has the deepest bass extension and the most bass energy of any speaker we have ever manufactured, they are, by far, the fullest sounding speaker we offer. That additional energy could be exciting those modes differently than Sierra-1 or Sierra-2EX, which have considerably less bass energy.

    So -- since you have a receiver with Audyssey, I recommend using Audyssey to take measurements of each speaker with the mic properly positioned at your exact listening position and height.

    Let's take a look at what is going on.

    A quick fix to get the sound you want might be flipping the speakers 180 degrees vertically so that the tweeter is on the bottom and woofer is on the top. No problem at all doing this, this changes the position of the woofer and rear port relative to the floor and ceiling height, and your ears.

    Also, what are the dimensions of your room, including ceiling height?
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  2. #872
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,006

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by muaddib View Post
    Yep, that's me in Canada

    These turned out to be exactly what I was after! They remind me of the BMRs but with perfect tonal balance and power handling. These tweeters are more ribbon like than any other dome I've come across. I keep turning the volume up and up, no fatigue!
    Excellent, happy to hear that you are enjoying the speakers and that there were no issues with delivery.

    Let me know if you plan on sending them for review (as we had previously discussed)

    Thanks!
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    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  3. #873
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Manhattan Beach, California
    Posts
    6,850

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

    This is a interesting site that I have run into before but at that time it was funky domain/host and was not always up. Looks like the owner has now moved it over to his/her github account.

    The LXs are there.

    https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/
    -curtis

  4. #874
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!


    The LX has the widest vertical dispersion of any speaker we offer, depending on your floor and ceiling, you could be getting reflections. However, based on your description of what you are hearing, I doubt this because you are describing the sound as being "thin" at your main listening position which better correlates with destructive room modes because they affect bass and midbass frequencies.

    The LX has the deepest bass extension and the most bass energy of any speaker we have ever manufactured, they are, by far, the fullest sounding speaker we offer. That additional energy could be exciting those modes differently than Sierra-1 or Sierra-2EX, which have considerably less bass energy.

    So -- since you have a receiver with Audyssey, I recommend using Audyssey to take measurements of each speaker with the mic properly positioned at your exact listening position and height.

    Let's take a look at what is going on.

    A quick fix to get the sound you want might be flipping the speakers 180 degrees vertically so that the tweeter is on the bottom and woofer is on the top. No problem at all doing this, this changes the position of the woofer and rear port relative to the floor and ceiling height, and your ears.

    Also, what are the dimensions of your room, including ceiling height?
    Room dimensions are 8 foot ceilings, about 17 feet long and main listening area width is 14 feet. There is a wall with window (wood blinds closed) to the right. The left side extends about another 10 feet to a dining area. There is a cut-in to that space front left for the front door and to the rear for the kitchen. The back wall has a large opening to the next room. Flooring is tile. It's not an ideal room by any means.

    I forgot to mention I had tried inverting the speakers already. I am trying it again this evening, but it doesn't make much of a difference in to relation to what I am hearing and I think I prefer them not inverted. I have the Audessy app if it would be helpful to post any screenshots let me know which ones would be helpful.

    I want to be clear that the bass on these speakers reach incredibly deep. Even when seated they are very impressive. I think I need to tweak my Audessy settings because for stereo music, they sound better listening in 2 speaker direct mode without the subs than with.

    I am going to box up the speakers and take them to my office to try them with a more rectangular room.

    I may not have a chance to do that until next week.

    Any additional thoughts appreciated. Thanks and Happy 4th of July to everyone!
    AVRs: Denon X6700H | Yamaha 3060 | Yamaha 740
    Speakers: Sierra LX | Sierra 2 EX | Sierra 1
    DACs: ADI-2 DAC fs | Hugo 2 Source: Roon

  5. #875
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

    Depending on the nature of how your room modes manifest, just simply standing or sitting could affect how you are hearing things under 250hz easily. Your sitting head may be just outside a null that your standing head just moves straight up into. This has nothing to do with the speaker. It's your room relative to speaker placement and MLP placement.

    One way to test for this is to bring a chair in, stick it 2 feet in front of your MLP, tune Audessy for this location, see if it sounds different.

    Without something like REW though, this is hard to troubleshoot.

  6. #876
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    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
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    5,006

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sccb View Post
    I have the Audessy app if it would be helpful to post any screenshots let me know which ones would be helpful.


    I would like to see the Audyssey measurements, both pre-EQ and after-EQ. Also, when using Audyssey, sometimes it is best to just position the mic at your main listening position only, keep it that one spot for the entire process.

    Quote Originally Posted by sccb View Post
    I want to be clear that the bass on these speakers reach incredibly deep. Even when seated they are very impressive. I think I need to tweak my Audessy settings because for stereo music, they sound better listening in 2 speaker direct mode without the subs than with.
    ahh - this is very useful. I am starting to think you might be getting some cancellations between the speakers and sub. Have you tried moving the subwoofer to a different location?
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  7. #877
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

    Hi Dave,

    Can I get an idea when purchasing Sierra LX, how does including NFS measurement for both speakers do to improve the sound? These are additional $500 just for some measurements (like ensuring speaker matching pair?).

    Do they actually have a big sound difference whether i choose without NFS measurements or with 2x NFS for the additional $500.

    Thanks, may be good to include some descriptives for the potential buyers who may not know how does choosing NFS measurements here actually benefit the buyer in terms of actual sound performance.

    My impression is I will just be getting some paper graphs telling me the pair is tested to be a matched pair although there may be no discernible sound difference.

    What do most of you guys order anyway, without NFS vs with NFS?

    Thanks for the reply
    Last edited by Lupan; 07-02-2022 at 06:09 AM.

  8. #878
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

    Getting an NFS measurement will in no way directly improve the sound quality of the speaker.

    1. It will however verify how close your speakers measure to Dave's LX (control).

    2. The measurement will allow you to use dsp (equalization) to make it anechoically perfect, however, the LX measures so close to perfect that the outcome may not even be audible.

    3. It may improve it's resale value, although not likely

    4. Coolness factor. Not many people have actual anechoic measurement of their speaker.

  9. #879
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

    Thanks muaddib for the info.

  10. #880
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I would like to see the Audyssey measurements, both pre-EQ and after-EQ. Also, when using Audyssey, sometimes it is best to just position the mic at your main listening position only, keep it that one spot for the entire process.



    ahh - this is very useful. I am starting to think you might be getting some cancellations between the speakers and sub. Have you tried moving the subwoofer to a different location?
    I was able to take my speakers to my office this weekend and hook them up there to take a listen. I can now say definitively that my room is the issue. The speakers sounds best at ear level when listening in a better room and while there is some shift as others mentioned their should be, it's nothing like in my living room at home, and the best listening position is seated at ear level with the speakers in a more rectangular room.

    I brought the speakers back home and ran Audessy using my iPad and the app instead of the receiver. I adjusted my sub-woofers to get them closer to the -11 db target. I will tweak them a little further in future runs, but using the Audessy app and redoing my calibrations as well as using the midrange compensation greatly improved the results I am getting with 2 channel listening with Audessy and the subs engaged. My sub-woofers are located in the right front corner of the room to the right of the right speaker and then left of my left front speaker. I have limited space so they are under my equipment racks in each position.

    The system now sounds better at ear level vs standing, the bass is a bit over-emphasized when standing, but sounds good at ear level where I do most of my listening. I now prefer the sound I am getting with the correction applied versus pure direct mode.

    Hearing my 2EX and the LX at the office, it's quite remarkable how much better the the bass response is with the new LX. I don't have a sub at the office so it was just listening to the book shelf speakers. It's amazing how much bass response there is for this size speaker. I'm definitely making progress in getting them dialed in and appreciate the advice here.

    I've seen a huge improvement in my movie / tv audio. I think this is a combination of the Denon X6700H and the LX speakers which are both recent upgrades to my system.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by sccb; 07-05-2022 at 08:34 PM.
    AVRs: Denon X6700H | Yamaha 3060 | Yamaha 740
    Speakers: Sierra LX | Sierra 2 EX | Sierra 1
    DACs: ADI-2 DAC fs | Hugo 2 Source: Roon

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