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Thread: Introducing the Sierra-LX!!!

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
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    2

    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Really cool. I think I found my next set of speakers. Dave, can you share what the "looks" of those drivers will be in the different cabinet finishes? Or is that part of the big later reveal?

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
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    388

    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Sounds exciting! I see some questions about option to retrofit with the Sierra 1-2, but I'm wondering if a guy already has RAAL tweets in the 2 or 2EX is this new one going to offer that much more?

    Dave, you said you had trouble telling them apart, right?

    Then again, I'm not taking into account the improved bass response tho... that can't be a bad thing either! In either case this new speaker looks like its gonna be something pretty special.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    415

    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Latest conclusions and pure speculations:
    -With the new tweeter capable of being crossed extremely low, and considering the design goal of high
    output, deep bass, slam factor, etc. I'm going to guess there's a new metal cone woofer.
    -Will use existing Sierra cabinets per Dave's comment: "The final nudge was that this tweeter, in stock
    format – fits into our existing cabinets with zero modification to the tweeter or cabinet!"
    -"Slightly under" the price of the Revel M106, which are about $2,200/pr, would put these over the 2EX.
    -Would the Sierra-1 still be offered? There's a huge price gap here.

    I think that's all I've got at the moment. Anyone else with some theories?
    My understanding from reading what Dave suggested at the beginning of the thread is that the price is aimed between the Sierra 1 and 2EX. Maybe I misunderstood though.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    SouthWest of Cleveland
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    1,861

    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Quote Originally Posted by N Boros View Post
    My understanding from reading what Dave suggested at the beginning of the thread is that the price is aimed between the Sierra 1 and 2EX. Maybe I misunderstood though.
    He originally was aiming for a Sierra-1EX which was aimed at improving the Sierra-1's mids and have deeper/punchier bass, but all the prototypes were too similar to the 2EX which was a mere $200 more. Then, in post #4, he says: "but it was also my goal to retail this new speaker at an affordable price and to come in slightly less than the Revel M106."

    I'm thinking he has been able to come in significantly less than that with these new drivers.
    Ed

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Just outside Pearland, TX
    Posts
    220

    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I actually hadn't thought about an upgrade path, but now that I think about it - sure, easy enough. It would simply be about swapping the tweeter, woofer and crossover.
    Since I can now almost do this swap blindfolded, this is very good news!

    22mm excursion on the woofer is pretty amazing. Can’t wait to hear these.
    Luna Duo V2 LCR and Rythmik L22 in HT, Sierra-LXs in study, S-2EXs in bedroom, S-1 NrTs in dining room, S-1s at work, HTM-200s in kitchen. Brother owns CMT-340s and dad has a pair of CBM-170s.

  6. #46
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    Apr 2020
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    388

    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Quote Originally Posted by SunByrne View Post
    22mm excursion on the woofer is pretty amazing. Can’t wait to hear these.
    Right?? That's massive for a 6" driver!

    I guess that answers my earlier question about upgrading. There's a bit more to gain than a fancy new tweeter. This is starting to get really interesting!

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    90

    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
    Right?? That's massive for a 6" driver!

    I guess that answers my earlier question about upgrading. There's a bit more to gain than a fancy new tweeter. This is starting to get really interesting!
    I just googled the driver that this customized woofer is based on. The 22mm spec is maximum travel (which I take is the limit before damage) but the real usable “linear travel” (i.e. limit before it starts distorting really bad) is 14mm which is still pretty respectable I think.

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...saAlG7EALw_wcB

  8. #48
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    Apr 2020
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    388

    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Quote Originally Posted by djDANNY View Post
    I just googled the driver that this customized woofer is based on. The 22mm spec is maximum travel (which I take is the limit before damage) but the real usable “linear travel” (i.e. limit before it starts distorting really bad) is 14mm which is still pretty respectable I think.

    https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...saAlG7EALw_wcB
    Ah, gotcha. That is quite a bit less but like you said still respectable. Bear in mind it is customized and has a more powerful magnet too tho. I know that doesn't change xmax a whole lot but it should have better control and power handling. I might be more interested to see how well this speaker does with bass than the new tweeter, tho I know it's what's making using that driver possible.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
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    4,979

    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spidacat View Post
    When I think of big/bold/loud/slam/fun/high power handling/deep bass... I think tower, not bookshelf.
    Exactly! As I stated at the beginning, it was our intention to offer something a bit different and this speaker is huge (sound-wise) / loud / slam / fun / deep bass and high power handling
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  10. #50
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    Aug 2003
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    USA
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    Default Re: Big News! Something New, Something A Bit Different...

    Quote Originally Posted by djDANNY View Post
    Where does power and thermal compression come into play with all of this? I’m assuming (purely on logical reasoning and not any specific knowledge I have on this subject) that if you need more power to “play louder” due to the lower sensitivity, that would cause more heat (conservation of energy) on the motor which would then result in more thermal compression.

    Can you comment on the cooling capabilities of the motor for this driver and also if the NFS is able to measure this phenomenon in any way?
    Power ratings from SEAS are always based on thermal compression. The actual power rating on the stock version is 200 watts continuous, 300 watts peak. Our version is a bit higher.

    To be more specific, thermal compression (due to lack of proper heat dissipation) is based on a few factors. 1. the voice coil, 2. the former and 3. the woofer movement (the movement of the woofer is what aids the most in cooling)

    Regarding the voice coil, most coil windings these days use CCAW (copper clad aluminum wire). This is common because it is inexpensive (copper has become very expensive) and a bit lighter in weight than pure copper. The issue with CCAW is that it isn't as good of an electrical conductor as pure copper (it generates more heat), and it also has much lower thermal conductivity than pure copper (doesn't dissipate that heat as well as pure copper).

    Additionally, rather than a single layer of coil windings, we went with a dual layer, which means twice the number of actual windings which provides even better power handling and heat dissipation. Dual layer voice coils are usually limited to woofers designed for subs. There are additional benefits to dual layer coils but this response is about power handling.

    We went with pure copper for the voice coil, which is a better conductor than aluminum or CCAW so it naturally generates less heat, and pure copper has twice the thermal conductivity of AL and CCAW, so it is far superior at dissipating that heat.

    As also mentioned, this woofer has a titanium former. Titanium is incredibly strong and rigid, and also has very poor thermal conductivity. The voice coil windings are wound around the former, and what generally causes thermal compression is that the former gets very hot due to the windings transferring that heat to the former, which then changes (reduces) the magnetic field, thus thermal compression starts to set in.

    Another issue with aluminum and Kapton formers, and this is one of the main reason for woofer failure or shortened usage is that the high heat generated from the windings and transferred to the former, usually ends up slightly deforming the former, and even a fraction of a mm deformation will cause major problems. This is not an issue with Titanium.

    Another major cause for woofer failure is when the voice coil gets too hot, it can breakdown the adhesive bond that holds the VC windings in place. When this happens, a winding breaks free and then instant failure. Or, the insulation of the coil wire breaks down and the windings short together, another instant failure. With this woofer, it would take an insane amount of power to cause this.

    Another cause of failure is over excursion, and in many woofers, this will cause the former to "slam" into the bottom plate, this is when you hear that loud bang or pop. With an AL former, it will instantly deform the former - not so with titanium. Also, our woofer is using a huge magnet, it would be almost impossible for the the former to slam into the bottom plate because the magnet gap is so long, instead the excursion would be limited by the spider and surround, not by the former slamming into the bottom plate.

    In addition, this woofer has a vented pole piece so that airflow generated by the woofer movement, moves through the pole piece providing constant cooling to the coil. This is further aided by the fact that this woofer has massive excursion (moves more air)

    Oh, I also forgot to mention that the voice coil is 39mm in diameter! This is a larger diameter than most 8-10" woofers, and similar to many 12" woofers. The larger the coil winding diameter, the greater the winding surface area, the better the heat dissipation. Most high performance 6" woofers use a 25mm coil winding (including our EX woofer, which at this point, we have yet to see even a single blown EX woofer).

    Pure copper voice coil windings, dual layers + titanium former, + very large diameter coil are all top-of-the-line and expensive features and (among other benefits) designed for heat dissipation / increased power handling...

    Hope this eases any concerns you have
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

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