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Thread: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    Thanks Robert!

    REW/Umik1 is a nice tool for finding the right speaker location/positions and integrating the subwoofer with the mains (when everything is working right). I may do some tweaking here and there, but to be honest, I am very happy with these Sierra Towers in my room. I may add another sub to the mix but based on how it sounds and the measurements, it is not a pressing issue for me...Jim
    Speakers: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Rythmik L12 sub
    Pre/Amp: HK3490 (120w)
    Source: Schiit Modi 3+, Tidal HD

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    Yes, REW is a great tool. I love my Sierra Towers too.
    * LG OLED65E6P, BenqHT2050A
    * Anthem AVM90, Rogue ST100, VTV Pascal 7 ch
    * Sierra Towers/Horizon (all ELX RAAL), S2EXv2 surrounds, HTM200SEx4 heights, Rythmik E15HPx2
    * VPI Classic 1+ (VTA & Fatboy Gimbal), PE Eagle/RR, VAS NOVA, Soundsmith Paua, Manley Chinook, Bob's Devices SUT, SugarCube 1 mini
    * Oppo 203 & 103D, EverSolo DMP-A6
    * miniDSP Flex, Audiosensibility & Blue Jeans cables, Symposium & Isoacoustics, GIK
    * For RDJ: Anthem MRX720, Sierra LX, Luna Duo v2 center, CXNv2, TBD

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    Quote Originally Posted by jimlucci View Post
    Well, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Just on a hunch, I took an older laptop that had less manufacturer device add-on's (ie. Realtech) and had both 2.0 and 3.0 usb ports, attached my Modi 3+ Dac and Umik1, set it up in my main listening position and ran a quick sweep from 10Hz - 20kHz - FLAT RESPONSE CURVE END TO END!!!! I am not sure where the problem lies with respect to my original laptop, but this laptop yields frequency response data more like what I was expecting. I am still playing around with the Umik1 connections to usb 2.0 and usb 3.0 on this laptop (they seem to behave slightly different, but I am not sure just yet). Once I am convinced that I have the setup on this new laptop correct, I will be running some controlled sweeps of my tower/sub setup and re-post them here. I think the insidious thing about this whole exercise is that the Umik1 partially worked. Had it not worked at all, I could have spent my time fixing a real problem instead of chasing my tail for 2 weeks.
    Very happy you resolved the issue! Yes, please post the measurements now, I always enjoy looking at these.

    Your issue is one of the reason I generally don't trust measurements taken using laptops / PC's etc. I have a very old and basic laptop (Windows XP) that is fully dedicated to trying out software like REW.
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    .
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    In an effort to remove any effects from the Windows audio stack and have equalizer capabilities, I have installed EqualizerAPO and removed the original APO's (windows/realtech maybe?). I ran very modest equalizer parameters in the REW EQ feature, created a .txt file of filters and loaded these into EqualizerAPO (only 3 filters all under 120Hz). My room is pretty heavily furnished, but I am not really able to install room treatments (not a dedicated listening area). Here is an spl and waterfall of my Sierra Towers w/RAAL and Rythmik L12 subwoofer:

    SPL:

    feb5eq-spl.jpg

    Waterfall:

    feb5eq_waterf.jpg

    ....Jim
    Speakers: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Rythmik L12 sub
    Pre/Amp: HK3490 (120w)
    Source: Schiit Modi 3+, Tidal HD

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    Quote Originally Posted by jimlucci View Post
    In an effort to remove any effects from the Windows audio stack and have equalizer capabilities, I have installed EqualizerAPO and removed the original APO's (windows/realtech maybe?). I ran very modest equalizer parameters in the REW EQ feature, created a .txt file of filters and loaded these into EqualizerAPO (only 3 filters all under 120Hz). My room is pretty heavily furnished, but I am not really able to install room treatments (not a dedicated listening area). Here is an spl and waterfall of my Sierra Towers w/RAAL and Rythmik L12 subwoofer:

    SPL:

    feb5eq-spl.jpg

    Waterfall:

    feb5eq_waterf.jpg

    ....Jim
    Hey Jim,

    Looks great, but it does appear phase integration between the sub and the speakers can be improved. Rythmik has some good info regarding this:

    https://www.rythmikaudio.com/phase1.html
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Hey Jim,

    Looks great, but it does appear phase integration between the sub and the speakers can be improved. Rythmik has some good info regarding this:

    https://www.rythmikaudio.com/phase1.html
    Thanks Dave - I have revisited that reference again. Rythmik has very good info/explanation regarding alignment of mains and subs.

    Because my HK3490 has no eq, delay or crossover adjustability do you think there would be any benefit in my setup by adding a 2X4 minidsp module between the pre-amp out and amp in connections? I am thinking that would allow more timing control between the mains and the sub as well as pass filter capability and eq if I wanted. As it stands the only timing alignment options I have are speaker/sub location and the delay/phase control provided on the Rythmik L12.

    I am going to play around with separate measurements of each main and the L12 to see if I can get them
    to all align better with positional modifications and the phase/delay on the L12. I have not re-run sweeps like that since I corrected the problem with REW and Umik1.
    Speakers: Sierra Towers w/RAAL, Rythmik L12 sub
    Pre/Amp: HK3490 (120w)
    Source: Schiit Modi 3+, Tidal HD

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    Quote Originally Posted by jimlucci View Post
    Thanks Dave - I have revisited that reference again. Rythmik has very good info/explanation regarding alignment of mains and subs.

    Because my HK3490 has no eq, delay or crossover adjustability do you think there would be any benefit in my setup by adding a 2X4 minidsp module between the pre-amp out and amp in connections? I am thinking that would allow more timing control between the mains and the sub as well as pass filter capability and eq if I wanted. As it stands the only timing alignment options I have are speaker/sub location and the delay/phase control provided on the Rythmik L12.

    I am going to play around with separate measurements of each main and the L12 to see if I can get them
    to all align better with positional modifications and the phase/delay on the L12. I have not re-run sweeps like that since I corrected the problem with REW and Umik1.
    Hi Jim,

    All you really need is the phase control on your sub. This is the first and simplest step, we can revisit if you don't get better results.
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
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    93

    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    Quote Originally Posted by jimlucci View Post
    Thanks Dave - I have revisited that reference again. Rythmik has very good info/explanation regarding alignment of mains and subs.

    Because my HK3490 has no eq, delay or crossover adjustability do you think there would be any benefit in my setup by adding a 2X4 minidsp module between the pre-amp out and amp in connections? I am thinking that would allow more timing control between the mains and the sub as well as pass filter capability and eq if I wanted. As it stands the only timing alignment options I have are speaker/sub location and the delay/phase control provided on the Rythmik L12.

    I am going to play around with separate measurements of each main and the L12 to see if I can get them
    to all align better with positional modifications and the phase/delay on the L12. I have not re-run sweeps like that since I corrected the problem with REW and Umik1.
    It looks like you would benefit from some EQ, so I would recommend going for the minidsp since you don’t have a receiver with auto calibration. Your freq response in the subwoofer region looks like you’re +/- 7 dB (14 dB swing from the high to the low). Your 10dB axis makes the response look smoother than it really sounds.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    or a dSpeaker antimode. Works really well on eq'ing subs and does it automatically. I used one for a bit when my miniDSP was having issues.
    * LG OLED65E6P, BenqHT2050A
    * Anthem AVM90, Rogue ST100, VTV Pascal 7 ch
    * Sierra Towers/Horizon (all ELX RAAL), S2EXv2 surrounds, HTM200SEx4 heights, Rythmik E15HPx2
    * VPI Classic 1+ (VTA & Fatboy Gimbal), PE Eagle/RR, VAS NOVA, Soundsmith Paua, Manley Chinook, Bob's Devices SUT, SugarCube 1 mini
    * Oppo 203 & 103D, EverSolo DMP-A6
    * miniDSP Flex, Audiosensibility & Blue Jeans cables, Symposium & Isoacoustics, GIK
    * For RDJ: Anthem MRX720, Sierra LX, Luna Duo v2 center, CXNv2, TBD

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Sierra Tower w/RAAL in room response question

    As Dave says, he needs the phase control on the sub. Phase integration is important, at least as important as EQing.

    With two people, it is pretty easy. Say your crossover is set for 80hz. Have one person with an SPL meter sitting at the listening position, have the other person adjusting phase. Play an 80hz tone, and while adjusting the phase, watch the SPL meter. As you are adjusting the phase, you will see the output on the meter vary...at its highest output point, that is when the phase is correct at 80hz. Play the tone through the system, not just the sub, so that the crossover and mains are in effect.

    Any device that just works on the sub, is not going to correct phase with the mains.
    Last edited by curtis; 02-09-2022 at 01:08 PM.
    -curtis

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