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Thread: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

  1. #1
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    Default Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    I just recently purchased an Outlaw Audio 5000X amplifier and have it hooked up in my system. I'm using a pair of Sierra Towers and a Horizon Center all with RAAL ribbon tweeters. Everything works and sounds good for the most part.

    The only issue I have is that if I put my ear up to the RAAL 70-20xram ribbon tweeters in any of my speakers, they are making a low level buzz that isn't present when switching back to using just my Yamaha TSR-7810 internal amplifier.

    I have ruled out any sort of grounding issue as the light buzz is present in all speakers even without any other connections made to the amplifier, aside from the required power and wiring out to the speakers. It is present in all 5 channels. The buzz does not increase or decrease in volume when the other pre-outs & ground connections are made. But as I said, the buzz is audible without any source connections to the amplifier. Is this normal behavior for an amplifier with 29x gain connected to the ribbon tweeters in my Ascend speakers? The buzz is only audible with my ear right up against the tweeters.

    I wanted to know if this is expected or normal behavior for this type of setup before I contact Outlaw. I figured fellow owners of the Towers/Horizon with RAAL ribbon tweeters may have the most insight. Any help would be appreciated.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    It isn't normal behavior in any setup.

    Do you have other speakers you can try? That said, with no issue with the Yamaha, it pretty much points to the amp. Did you purchase it new from Outlaw?
    -curtis

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    Default Re: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    It isn't normal behavior in any setup.

    Do you have other speakers you can try? That said, with no issue with the Yamaha, it pretty much points to the amp. Did you purchase it new from Outlaw?
    I just hooked up an Elac UB5 bookshelf to the amplifier in place of one of my Sierra Towers and I can also hear the low level buzz in its tweeter with the amp powered on. In both the Ascend and Elac speakers it's only audible with my ear nearly touching the tweeter though.

    I did not purchase the amplifier brand new but did have the warranty transferred over to me. It is under warranty with Outlaw and less than a year old.

    Is this possibly an issue with the grounding in my apartment? The Yamaha AVR has a floating ground with a 2 prong power plug while the Outlaw is 3 pronged.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    Usually a grounding issue would be louder. But it wouldn't hurt to try a cheater plug as a temporary test to see if it helps. Don't leave it in long term.

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    Default Re: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesiskav View Post
    Usually a grounding issue would be louder. But it wouldn't hurt to try a cheater plug as a temporary test to see if it helps. Don't leave it in long term.
    Okay, that makes sense. I'll pick up one of those cheap single cheater plugs and try not to kill myself while testing it out.

    My other question is being that the sound is a very low level buzz that was present in both the Elac and Ascend tweeters with my ear up to them, do I have to worry about it potentially damaging the speakers? I've read online before that very low buzz from ground loops etc. can be annoying but isn't actually dangerous to the speakers. Is that true in this case? Thanks for your help.
    Last edited by Shazb0t; 12-27-2021 at 07:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    I have the same issue with my Monolith 3x on Sierra 2’s. Hooked up to my Marantz SR6013 the speakers are dead silent. Hooked up to the Monolith amp I get the same very slight hiss only audible with my ears right to the speaker. I go rca pre-out to rca input on the amp. I tried rca pre-out to xlr in but that resulted in an even louder hiss.

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    Default Re: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    Quote Originally Posted by djDANNY View Post
    I have the same issue with my Monolith 3x on Sierra 2’s. Hooked up to my Marantz SR6013 the speakers are dead silent. Hooked up to the Monolith amp I get the same very slight hiss only audible with my ears right to the speaker. I go rca pre-out to rca input on the amp. I tried rca pre-out to xlr in but that resulted in an even louder hiss.
    Do you hear the slight hiss even when it's just your Monolith amp connected to your speakers with no other inputs? That's the scenario I'm trying to investigate.

    If yours only has hiss when your AVR is connected to the Monolith amp you can likely resolve your ground loop by running a wire between both connected to their individual chassis grounds.
    Last edited by Shazb0t; 12-27-2021 at 02:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazb0t View Post
    Do you hear the slight hiss even when it's just your Monolith amp connected to your speakers with no other inputs? That's the scenario I'm trying to investigate.

    If yours only has hiss when your AVR is connected to the Monolith amp you can likely resolve your ground loop by running a wire between both connected to their individual chassis grounds.
    From what I remember, the answer is yes it’s there even disconnected from the AVR but my system is completely taken apart now while I run new wiring so can’t easily test and confirm. Maybe tonight if I have some time I’ll lug everything out.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesiskav View Post
    Usually a grounding issue would be louder. But it wouldn't hurt to try a cheater plug as a temporary test to see if it helps. Don't leave it in long term.
    Okay, so I tested with a cheater plug in the wall socket with only the Outlaw amp and speaker connections and it didn't make a difference. The low level noise/buzz was still present at the same level.

    I then ditched the cheater plug and normally hooked up my speakers to the AVR outputs while only leaving the grounding wire connection between it and the Outlaw intact. With the AVR powered on I actually can hear a low level noise coming through the speakers and it was music! It was too faint for me to make out with my ear up to the tweeters, but it definitely had a musical beat accompanied by vocals. It subsided after a few minutes into just low level noise. This "music" and noise were both lower in volume than the noise I hear through the Outlaw, but both require a close ear to the tweeter for audibility. What the hell was that about?? At least the low level noise issue doesn't seem to ONLY affect the Outlaw amplifier as I initially thought. It is just slightly louder in the Outlaw vs the Yahama AVR. I have yet to hear any "music" through the Outlaw as the amplifier, only low level noise.

    I also connected everything back up as normal with the AVR as the pre into the Outlaw amplifier and experimented with the AVR volume to see if the noise changed in level from muted to max volume. It does not, it is present as a static volume if that points to anything.

    The more I look into this issue the deeper the rabbit hole seems to go. I'm not convinced it's a problem with my Outlaw amplifier, but I'm perplexed that there is some sort of noise/music signal in my apartment power lines or being picked up and amplified by my equipment. Be it the Yamaha AVR or Outlaw amplifier. This noise is so low in level it does not affect my experience with the speakers, it's definitely a curiosity though. And I'm still slightly concerned if there is any danger to the tweeters because of it, though I'm personally thinking the answer is no.
    Last edited by Shazb0t; 12-27-2021 at 05:08 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sierra RAAL Towers/Horizon with Outlaw Audio 5000X Amp

    Ground loops usually present themselves as a 60Hz hum, not a hiss. What you are describing here sounds a bit more like some type of RF interference or similar.

    First step:

    if you have any cordless phones in the house, turn them off completely.
    Turn off all wifi
    Basically, turn off anything that broadcasts a wireless signal in your home (including all cell phones)

    Give that a try and report back...

    I should have mentioned to power them down completely (unplug from power)
    Last edited by davef; 12-27-2021 at 11:45 PM.
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    David Fabrikant
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