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Thread: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL option?

  1. #1
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    Default Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL option?

    Hello everyone, I am new to this forum, but am very interested in getting a pair of Tower with RAAL tweeter option. This is going to be used in a 5.1 setup with the Horizon as center, but will likely be used more in 2 channel music listening. Room is about 12x16x8, where the listening position will be about 7 to 8 ft from the main speakers, and the main speaker will be about 5.5 to 6 ft apart. The question is, what will be a good choice for the two surround speakers that will be on stands, placed behind the listening position close to either cornor of the back wall?

    TIA for all recommendations.

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    Default Re: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL opti

    Depends on your budget for the surrounds.

    The HTM200's will work really well. I was using these as surrounds with S2 before I upgraded to the Towers with RAAL for my fronts. Still using the HTM's for ATMOS speakers and moved the S2 to surround duty. You can even wall mount the HTMs if you wanted as no rear port.

    Luna or S2/S2EX would be great options, as well, albeit more expensive.

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    Default Re: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL opti

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    Depends on your budget for the surrounds.

    The HTM200's will work really well. I was using these as surrounds with S2 before I upgraded to the Towers with RAAL for my fronts. Still using the HTM's for ATMOS speakers and moved the S2 to surround duty. You can even wall mount the HTMs if you wanted as no rear port.

    Luna or S2/S2EX would be great options, as well, albeit more expensive.
    I agree. If you're eventually going to get into multichannel music than I think a pair of Sierra-2s or Lunas are well worth it.
    Nate

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    Default Re: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL opti

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    Depends on your budget for the surrounds.

    The HTM200's will work really well. I was using these as surrounds with S2 before I upgraded to the Towers with RAAL for my fronts. Still using the HTM's for ATMOS speakers and moved the S2 to surround duty. You can even wall mount the HTMs if you wanted as no rear port.

    Luna or S2/S2EX would be great options, as well, albeit more expensive.
    Thank you for the information, they help a lot. One concern regarding Luna, S2, or S2EX, will their lower efficiency compare to Tower/Horizon be an issue? I remember reading somewhere that Dave F. doesn't recommend surround speaker efficiency be too much off from the mains, which caused my concern. Meanwhile, when you moved the S2 to the surround position, what seems to be the improvements you noticed without running the HTM's?

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    Default Re: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL opti

    Quote Originally Posted by natetg57 View Post
    I agree. If you're eventually going to get into multichannel music than I think a pair of Sierra-2s or Lunas are well worth it.
    My music listening likely will stay just the two channel setup, but was wondering for HT, will Luna, S2, or S2EX provide a tangible improvement over the HTM's if the efficiency difference between them and the Tower isn't an issue?

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    Default Re: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL opti

    Quote Originally Posted by elan120 View Post
    My music listening likely will stay just the two channel setup, but was wondering for HT, will Luna, S2, or S2EX provide a tangible improvement over the HTM's if the efficiency difference between them and the Tower isn't an issue?
    In my experience, dome tweeters and the ribbon tweeters don't integrate well in circumstances where a high frequency sound pans from the front sound stage to the rear. I would recommend domes with domes, and ribbons with ribbons. Efficiency isn't much of an issue for the surrounds it's about a +3 db. boost to match volume between the Towers and Sierra ribbon speakers.

    Jay

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    Default Re: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL opti

    Quote Originally Posted by petmotel View Post
    In my experience, dome tweeters and the ribbon tweeters don't integrate well in circumstances where a high frequency sound pans from the front sound stage to the rear. I would recommend domes with domes, and ribbons with ribbons. Efficiency isn't much of an issue for the surrounds it's about a +3 db. boost to match volume between the Towers and Sierra ribbon speakers.

    Jay
    Thank you for the ideas. I have been looking at the Luna, S2, or S2EX as the possibilities, but their efficiency is around 85 to 87db range, but Tower appears to be more efficient if I look at the in-room efficiency spec. Will this difference enough to be concerned?

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    Default Re: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL opti

    Quote Originally Posted by elan120 View Post
    My music listening likely will stay just the two channel setup, but was wondering for HT, will Luna, S2, or S2EX provide a tangible improvement over the HTM's if the efficiency difference between them and the Tower isn't an issue?
    I didn't have any issues with either the HTM or current S2 as surround (or heights). Your AVR (which one?) likely has room correction where it will either boost or lower the "volume" to the different speakers so they are level matched at 75 db. Plus, your surrounds might be closer than your mains which will also help offset different levels of loudness at a constant power input.

    For reference, here are the trim gains and distances in feet that I use with my MRX720.
    Towers with RAAL FL/FR 0/-1 9/10
    Center (Luna Duo) 6 9
    S2 (SL/SR) 1/4 6/8
    HTM (FHL/FHR) -5/-5 11/12
    HTM (RHL/RHR) -6/-6 7/8
    Sub 0 14

    Note, I do boost the center by a couple of db just because of my old ears :-)
    The HTM trim is negative due to difference in amp gains. I'm using a VTV class D with XLR inputs for the heights, center & surrounds driven by MRX internal amps, FL/FR driven by a Rogue ST100.
    Subs (2 for music - E15HP both up front, 3 for music - the 2 E15s and currently an old Outlaw LFM-1 Plus near field). The 14 foot distance isn't actual, but based on REW calibration so in phase with mains. For music, I use the line in on the E15 amps to set cross-over and phase (i.e. distance) to align with mains.

    I only use the surrounds (and heights) for the occasional movie. I'm 99% music and purely 2 channel. So, I've not really noticed (nor have I listened for) any differences. The S2 are used for the surrounds just because I had them (was able to sell my S2 center when I moved to the Luna Duo, which was an improvement in dialog clarity). The HTMs I was using as surrounds went to the office for background music whilst working from home (primarily Pandora streaming) - mainly due to placement options and it is secondary listening area - so wouldn't do the S2's justice, imo

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    Default Re: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL opti

    Quote Originally Posted by petmotel View Post
    In my experience, dome tweeters and the ribbon tweeters don't integrate well in circumstances where a high frequency sound pans from the front sound stage to the rear. I would recommend domes with domes, and ribbons with ribbons. Efficiency isn't much of an issue for the surrounds it's about a +3 db. boost to match volume between the Towers and Sierra ribbon speakers.

    Jay
    Jay - are you comparing Ascend domes with Ascend RAALs or domes/ribbons in general? I believe Dave (and/or others) have previously commented that the Ascend line is voiced pretty consistent across the speakers. Not to say that folks with better hearing (higher frequencies per se) than me might be more sensitive to me (wonder if I should be regretting all those rock concerts, loud car stereo, and garage band days when I was younger ;-) ).

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Another surround speaker question - what will pair well with Tower with RAAL opti

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    I didn't have any issues with either the HTM or current S2 as surround (or heights). Your AVR (which one?) likely has room correction where it will either boost or lower the "volume" to the different speakers so they are level matched at 75 db. Plus, your surrounds might be closer than your mains which will also help offset different levels of loudness at a constant power input.

    For reference, here are the trim gains and distances in feet that I use with my MRX720.
    Towers with RAAL FL/FR 0/-1 9/10
    Center (Luna Duo) 6 9
    S2 (SL/SR) 1/4 6/8
    HTM (FHL/FHR) -5/-5 11/12
    HTM (RHL/RHR) -6/-6 7/8
    Sub 0 14

    Note, I do boost the center by a couple of db just because of my old ears :-)
    The HTM trim is negative due to difference in amp gains. I'm using a VTV class D with XLR inputs for the heights, center & surrounds driven by MRX internal amps, FL/FR driven by a Rogue ST100.
    Subs (2 for music - E15HP both up front, 3 for music - the 2 E15s and currently an old Outlaw LFM-1 Plus near field). The 14 foot distance isn't actual, but based on REW calibration so in phase with mains. For music, I use the line in on the E15 amps to set cross-over and phase (i.e. distance) to align with mains.

    I only use the surrounds (and heights) for the occasional movie. I'm 99% music and purely 2 channel. So, I've not really noticed (nor have I listened for) any differences. The S2 are used for the surrounds just because I had them (was able to sell my S2 center when I moved to the Luna Duo, which was an improvement in dialog clarity). The HTMs I was using as surrounds went to the office for background music whilst working from home (primarily Pandora streaming) - mainly due to placement options and it is secondary listening area - so wouldn't do the S2's justice, imo
    That sounds good. The Marantz AV7005 I use does have room correction calibration feature, which I have used them with my setup in the past. Since the speaker efficiency difference isn't a concern, I will pounder some more whether to go with S2 or S2EX as the cost difference between the Luna plus new stands will be close to S2 or S2EX without the stands, and the standard S2EX with current discount is only slightly higher than the S2.

    The amp gain for all 5 channels is the same for HT setup, as I am planning to use my existing Emotiva 5 channel amplifier still. When listening in 2 channel music, I will experiment with different amps to see what will be a best match for the Tower, but my critical music listening, for the time being, will still be my headphone system. There is a good chance I will also experiment with the amplifiers I plan to acquire later this year for my headphone to see how well they will work with the Towers, but they are all in the 25 to 30W range, so hopefully the Towers are efficient enough and will play nicely in the size room I have.

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