Sierra Ribbon Towers and Treble

[Pogre]

I have several different pairs of speakers that I've collected along the way, finding cheap deals on Craigslist. Most of the time I resell them and sometimes make a small profit even. Mostly I break even tho, which is fine for me. I love this hobby and I get to try out different speakers at home basically for free.

One of the ones I kept are a pair of Infinity IL30s, which I picked up for ten bucks! I don't know if anyone here is familiar with Infinity's IL line, but they're really good speakers for their price when new, and measure very flat and neutral. I just love them. Mainly because I only paid ten bucks for them, but boy do they sound nice as well. So where ami going with this..?

I love those Infinities, but they don't compare to my Sierra Ribbons, which are the best sounding speakers I've had in my room to date. The thing is, it seems like I have to bump my upper frequencies a lot more with the Sierras than I do for most speakers. When I run Audyssey XT32 it seems to agree and wants to really bump up the higher frequencies for the "Flat" setting.

16 kHz +6 dB
8 kHz +5 dB
4 kHz +4 dB

It continues to taper down to 1 kHz, which is -1 dB. Audyssey doesn't boost any of my other speakers that high. This is the same system, same room and equipment, but the Sierras are further back (about 14.5 feet from mlp) because when I pull my other speakers out to listen I set them up in front of the Sierras. Then I just pull the nanner plugs out of the Sierras and plug them into the other set. So that does put the IL30s and my other speakers about a foot and a half closer to mlp. I've also measured the fr from my seat with Audyssey on and the boost isn't showing up on my charts. It does not tilt up at all, and definitely not by 6 dB.

Anyhoo, a 5 and 6 dB boost at 8 and 16 kHz seems pretty excessive and makes me a little nervous because I do like to turn it up every once in a while. I don't wanna blow a tweeter. I did try limiting Audyssey to only below 500 Hz, but then the Sierras seem a little flat and lifeless to me. I am missing those higher frequencies.

Is it toe in? The further distance? I prefer the sound I get with Audyssey's correction but at the same time it's adding a lot of boost to get there.

[Pogre]

I just took this measurement, and it's with those 4, 5 and 6 dB boosts.

Sierras Flat_copy_615x293.jpg

[Pogre]

MultEQ app adjustments affect the Reference setting and rolls off the highs, so that's what I've been using. This is where I'm at after a little bit of tweaking.

Sierras Final_copy_615x293.jpg

I flattened the hf roll off with the editor so it's still boosted, but not by as much as the flat setting. I'd like to figure out what's going on with my hf response and why it's taking so much boost to make it linear at the mlp. I'm always reading how a lot of folks limit room correction to below the Schroeder frequency for best results, but like I said in my first post it just doesn't sound very good.

This is where I'm at in Pure/Direct at mlp.

Sierras Pure Direct_copy_615x293.jpg

[davef]

I have several different pairs of speakers that I've collected along the way, finding cheap deals on Craigslist. Most of the time I resell them and sometimes make a small profit even. Mostly I break even tho, which is fine for me. I love this hobby and I get to try out different speakers at home basically for free.

One of the ones I kept are a pair of Infinity IL30s, which I picked up for ten bucks! I don't know if anyone here is familiar with Infinity's IL line, but they're really good speakers for their price when new, and measure very flat and neutral. I just love them. Mainly because I only paid ten bucks for them, but boy do they sound nice as well. So where ami going with this..?

I love those Infinities, but they don't compare to my Sierra Ribbons, which are the best sounding speakers I've had in my room to date. The thing is, it seems like I have to bump my upper frequencies a lot more with the Sierras than I do for most speakers. When I run Audyssey XT32 it seems to agree and wants to really bump up the higher frequencies for the "Flat" setting.

16 kHz +6 dB
8 kHz +5 dB
4 kHz +4 dB

It continues to taper down to 1 kHz, which is -1 dB. Audyssey doesn't boost any of my other speakers that high. This is the same system, same room and equipment, but the Sierras are further back (about 14.5 feet from mlp) because when I pull my other speakers out to listen I set them up in front of the Sierras. Then I just pull the nanner plugs out of the Sierras and plug them into the other set. So that does put the IL30s and my other speakers about a foot and a half closer to mlp. I've also measured the fr from my seat with Audyssey on and the boost isn't showing up on my charts. It does not tilt up at all, and definitely not by 6 dB.

Anyhoo, a 5 and 6 dB boost at 8 and 16 kHz seems pretty excessive and makes me a little nervous because I do like to turn it up every once in a while. I don't wanna blow a tweeter. I did try limiting Audyssey to only below 500 Hz, but then the Sierras seem a little flat and lifeless to me. I am missing those higher frequencies.

Is it toe in? The further distance? I prefer the sound I get with Audyssey's correction but at the same time it's adding a lot of boost to get there.

For any in-room use of speakers, the further the speakers are away from the listener/microphone - the more high frequency dropoff there will be. This is due to both absorption and reflections causing phase cancellations.

With ribbon tweeters, there will be less energy produced vertically off-axis compared to a dome tweeter. (otherwise known as higher directivity) Depending on the room (overall absorption, ceiling height, ceiling material, floor material - hardwood, carpet etc) - ribbons will produce less overall in-room energy than domes as they do not throw sound all over the place vertically like domes do. This is a good thing.

Audyssey measures the overall in-room response, including all reflections - so depending on your room acoustics, you may see more high frequency drop off compared to a dome.

Audyssey boosting the highs by even as much as 6dB (or higher) to obtain a flatter in-room response (according to Audyssey's metrics) is not a problem. You will not damage the ribbon tweeter by boosting high frequencies, in fact - we have never had anyone damage the RAAL 70-20xram tweeters that are in your towers, other than someone once tipping over one of the towers and someone else who experienced a massive amp failure and basically melted every component in the tower.

RAAL 70-20's are more durable and less prone to failure than any dome tweeter I have ever come across.

[Pogre]

For any in-room use of speakers, the further the speakers are away from the listener/microphone - the more high frequency dropoff there will be. This is due to both absorption and reflections causing phase cancellations.

With ribbon tweeters, there will be less energy produced vertically off-axis compared to a dome tweeter. (otherwise known as higher directivity) Depending on the room (overall absorption, ceiling height, ceiling material, floor material - hardwood, carpet etc) - ribbons will produce less overall in-room energy than domes as they do not throw sound all over the place vertically like domes do. This is a good thing.

Audyssey measures the overall in-room response, including all reflections - so depending on your room acoustics, you may see more high frequency drop off compared to a dome.

Audyssey boosting the highs by even as much as 6dB (or higher) to obtain a flatter in-room response (according to Audyssey's metrics) is not a problem. You will not damage the ribbon tweeter by boosting high frequencies, in fact - we have never had anyone damage the RAAL 70-20xram tweeters that are in your towers, other than someone once tipping over one of the towers and someone else who experienced a massive amp failure and basically melted every component in the tower.

RAAL 70-20's are more durable and less prone to failure than any dome tweeter I have ever come across.

Everything you said makes sense to me and I think I understand what you're saying about the differences in dispersion. I'm well aware of how much the room and distance affect sound, but have never had ribbons before so I'm still learning. I do sit pretty far from the front stage and my ceiling is vaulted, starting at the wall where the speakers are and slopes up toward my mlp, which is almost directly under the peak. That combined with the vertical dispersion patter of the RAALs could explain a lot. Okay then, I'm gonna shelve that worry and get back to enjoying my speakers. Like I said, my only concern was not knowing about the effect of adding so much boost.

They sound fantastic once dialed in and I'm super happy with them. Every time I hook up a speaker with a dome tweeter (which is all of my other speakers, lol) it's almost jarring, the difference in sound. All of my domes sound fuzzy or tizzy to me now until my ears break back in to them. I'm spoiled now!

Hey, are you expecting some Horizon cabs soon? I put an order in at the end of January for one and Dina said you guys would have some more in roughly the end of this month. I was planning to give her a call sometime this week to make sure you guys still had me down for one.

[Pogre]

Oh, and thank you for the thorough explanation Dave! I love learning more about this hobby and love my new speakers.

[davef]

MultEQ app adjustments affect the Reference setting and rolls off the highs, so that's what I've been using. This is where I'm at after a little bit of tweaking.

Sierras Final_copy_615x293.jpg

I flattened the hf roll off with the editor so it's still boosted, but not by as much as the flat setting. I'd like to figure out what's going on with my hf response and why it's taking so much boost to make it linear at the mlp. I'm always reading how a lot of folks limit room correction to below the Schroeder frequency for best results, but like I said in my first post it just doesn't sound very good.

This is where I'm at in Pure/Direct at mlp.

Sierras Pure Direct_copy_615x293.jpg

I honestly don't see anything wrong - this looks like a typical in-room response. There is only a 5dB "droop" from 1kHz to 20kHz and is close to being exactly the common target in-room response. You don't want a flat in-room response, unless your ears prefer this which is ok too

Remember, Audyssey is measuring your room, this is known as the in-room response.

Please see here for what is widely considered the ideal in-room response:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...2&d=1482420501

Notice that same 5dB droop? Your in-room response with no auto-EQ is nearly perfect. You have a 5dB bump at around 800Hz, likely caused by a reflection (possible ceiling bounce or your couch or a table etc.) and there is a slight dip at 10kHz, likely also caused by a reflection, the mic itself, or mic positioning.

For an in-room response, this is seriously very very good!

[Pogre]

For an in-room response, this is seriously very very good!

Thank you! I've put a lot of work into it. I did a lot of measuring with no eq at all and moved stuff around until I got the best response I could before I did any room correction. I'm gonna check out that link when I finish this post. I didn't mention, I have a minidsp for the subs so there is a little eq on them in the direct graph, but the speakers were untouched.

What's your take on the "Final" graph? Too flat?? I prefer it over direct. Oh, I do bump the bass up just a couple dB too when I finish measuring.

[mikesiskav]

When measuring with REW, which mic are you using? Is it pointed at the speakers or straight up?

[Pogre]

Umik. Straight up.