Speaker upgrade opinions and experiences requested!!!

[racrawford65]

You can damage any speaker if not enough power in the amp (if amp clips, you can blow a tweeter).

Using some on-line calculators, and at 120 wpc, speaker sensitivity of 92, and 9 foot listening distance, peak SPL is 107+ db. Leaving about 3 db headroom, you'd hit around 101 db. Similarly, to hit 90 db at 9', you need roughly 9-10 watts.

[N Boros]

I have some time before the new Sierra Towers arrive. In preparation I continue to read through the Forum and am discovering additional considerations, the most concerning of which is driving the new Sierra Towers/RAAL with my existing HK3490 receiver. From what I read, you can damage these speakers if they are driven at higher volumes without adequate wattage. I just want to make sure I have enough headroom here so that I don't damage the speakers. Thoughts anyone??

Do you have intentions of listening louder than you currently do right now? If your current amplification can power the Sierra 1s as loud as you would comfortably listen, then it will only be easier with Sierra Towers which have greater sensitivity. In other words, you get 3 to 4 dB more output with the same amplification going with the towers.

But, to dig into the numbers, here we go. The Sierra towers can play at 92 dB from 1 meter with 2.83 Volts. In the absolute worst case scenario, where a frequency is being played is at the 4 Ohm minimum, this would require 2 Watts of amplification. This implies that they can hit 87.5 dB at 2m with 2 W. Or, 83 dB at 4m with 4 W. 9ft is about 2.75 meters, so it would take at most around 3 W to hit 85 to 88 dB. Again, this is the frequency that is at the 4 Ohm impedance, which is the worst case scenario. Typically it will require less than 3 W to hit 85 to 88 dB at 9 feet. If you decide to get some subwoofers, things get even easier. If you have money sitting around that you would want to spend on amplification, I'd sooner spend it on subwoofers, which makes driving the speakers easier and will allow you to hear frequencies and feel them in a way that you couldn't before. I think that the 85 to 89 dB output is no problem with your current amplification.

[jimlucci]

Thanks racrawford and Boros!! This is all great info. I have been reading many of your posts throughout the Forum and am learning a lot about how this all works. I do have a small subwoofer right now with the Sierra1's, but I am pretty sure I will be replacing that with a Rythmik as many people (including Dave) believe is the optimal setup. I think the thing to do is get an spl meter to get some readings in my environment (laptop mic? handheld? brand?). I can then find out where I am at with the HK3490 and the Sierra1's before the Towers arrive. I have an android phone app (soundmeter) but I know those are not that accurate/reliable. Are there limiters out there to prevent clipping??

[davef]

I have some time before the new Sierra Towers arrive. In preparation I continue to read through the Forum and am discovering additional considerations, the most concerning of which is driving the new Sierra Towers/RAAL with my existing HK3490 receiver. From what I read, you can damage these speakers if they are driven at higher volumes without adequate wattage. I just want to make sure I have enough headroom here so that I don't damage the speakers. Thoughts anyone??

You are describing amplifier clipping. This is when your amp, or in your case, your receiver is tasked with producing more power than it is capable of. Clipping an amp can damage any speaker -- it is basically the equivalent of revving an engine past its redline.



The towers have significantly higher sensitivity than your Sierra-1 (~+4dB). This means the towers will use a bit less than half of the power required to reach the same volume level on the Sierra-1. If you haven't clipped your receiver using Sierra-1, you certainly won't do so using the towers.

[racrawford65]

Thanks racrawford and Boros!! This is all great info. I have been reading many of your posts throughout the Forum and am learning a lot about how this all works. I do have a small subwoofer right now with the Sierra1's, but I am pretty sure I will be replacing that with a Rythmik as many people (including Dave) believe is the optimal setup. I think the thing to do is get an spl meter to get some readings in my environment (laptop mic? handheld? brand?). I can then find out where I am at with the HK3490 and the Sierra1's before the Towers arrive. I have an android phone app (soundmeter) but I know those are not that accurate/reliable. Are there limiters out there to prevent clipping??

Rythmik's are awesome subs.

If, even after Dave's post above, you are still interested in a mic, I would suggest the UMIK-1. With this, you can download REW to your laptop (free software) and use that to measure SPL, in-room speaker response, time aligning speakers/sub(s), etc. It's a really great/valuable program.

The only limiter I am aware of to prevent clipping is the volume knob :-) (My AVR also allows me to set a limit on how high the volume will go -- eg, I can go to +10, but have the max limited to 0. Many, many years ago, I did have a device (like a fuse but don't recall what exactly it was) installed in the speaker wires that would prevent speaker damage from excessive volume/clipping amps (former girlfriend liked to crank up Pantera (This Love and other tunes) - protection in case she over did it when I wasn't around :-)).

[jimlucci]

Rythmik's are awesome subs.

If, even after Dave's post above, you are still interested in a mic, I would suggest the UMIK-1. With this, you can download REW to your laptop (free software) and use that to measure SPL, in-room speaker response, time aligning speakers/sub(s), etc. It's a really great/valuable program.

The only limiter I am aware of to prevent clipping is the volume knob :-) (My AVR also allows me to set a limit on how high the volume will go -- eg, I can go to +10, but have the max limited to 0. Many, many years ago, I did have a device (like a fuse but don't recall what exactly it was) installed in the speaker wires that would prevent speaker damage from excessive volume/clipping amps (former girlfriend liked to crank up Pantera (This Love and other tunes) - protection in case she over did it when I wasn't around :-)).

LOL - you have uncovered my underlying concern - my wife can sometimes get the volume up rather high and head to another room - that type of thing. The other thing that got me thinking about this issue in general is that, although I don't know conclusively the cause, I did have to replace one of the tweeters in the Sierra1's a year or so ago. They were past the warranty period, but Dave got me a replacement for a reasonable cost. My guess is that I inadvertently clipped it. I don't think, given the higher sensitivity of the Towers (and my advancing age), that I will drive them that high especially if I add a Rythmik to the mix. It is just that I want to make sure I have some nice power headroom to prevent that from happening. Just looking to protect them with either sufficient power or some sort of limiting mechanism. I will spend some of the time I have getting some proper readings in my room I think. There is a lot to this stuff.

[N Boros]

LOL - you have uncovered my underlying concern - my wife can sometimes get the volume up rather high and head to another room - that type of thing. The other thing that got me thinking about this issue in general is that, although I don't know conclusively the cause, I did have to replace one of the tweeters in the Sierra1's a year or so ago. They were past the warranty period, but Dave got me a replacement for a reasonable cost. My guess is that I inadvertently clipped it. I don't think, given the higher sensitivity of the Towers (and my advancing age), that I will drive them that high especially if I add a Rythmik to the mix. It is just that I want to make sure I have some nice power headroom to prevent that from happening. Just looking to protect them with either sufficient power or some sort of limiting mechanism. I will spend some of the time I have getting some proper readings in my room I think. There is a lot to this stuff.

There is a very simple solution to what your wife is doing with the volume. Most receivers have a volume limiter in the settings. Set it as loud as you would listen and she will not be able to exceed this and possible damage the speakers. I do this since I have kids and have the same concerns. This should be free.

[jimlucci]

There is a very simple solution to what your wife is doing with the volume. Most receivers have a volume limiter in the settings. Set it as loud as you would listen and she will not be able to exceed this and possible damage the speakers. I do this since I have kids and have the same concerns. This should be free.

Yeah that would be the proper solution and I am sure many of the new receivers have that option, but my HK3490 does not seem to be one of them. It is an older receiver but I do like it and it does a great job, so at this point it does'nt make sense to upgrade. I will just have to hide the remote. Lol.

[N Boros]

Yeah that would be the proper solution and I am sure many of the new receivers have that option, but my HK3490 does not seem to be one of them. It is an older receiver but I do like it and it does a great job, so at this point it does'nt make sense to upgrade. I will just have to hide the remote. Lol.

In all seriousness though, you should either talk with your wife about how loud she can crank it up, or if she is not going to follow this then think about purchasing a receiver with a limiter or an external amplifier. Those Raal ribbon tweeters in the towers are pretty expensive if you clip them and need to replace them. It can exceed the cost of getting a new receiver with a limiter. The order that I listed these are in order from least to most expensive.

I’m not concerned about someone listening to these speakers while in the room, since they will not drive them into clipping sitting 9 feet away from them. But cranking it to hear in the other room is another story.

[jimlucci]

In all seriousness though, you should either talk with your wife about how loud she can crank it up, or if she is not going to follow this then think about purchasing a receiver with a limiter or an external amplifier. Those Raal ribbon tweeters in the towers are pretty expensive if you clip them and need to replace them. It can exceed the cost of getting a new receiver with a limiter. The order that I listed these are in order from least to most expensive.

I’m not concerned about someone listening to these speakers while in the room, since they will not drive them into clipping sitting 9 feet away from them. But cranking it to hear in the other room is another story.

I am probably exaggerating somewhat with her habits, but the point is a good one - those RAAL tweeters are expensive and I would not want to damage them. They are likely more expensive to replace than a receiver/amp that I would buy. I just thought there might be a short term solution. We will definitely be having a HiFi best practices discussion when the Towers and Sub arrives. Thanks for all of your help and advice on this forum - it has been greatly appreciated!!!