Finally pulled the trigger.

[Qman]

I guess a big question I have is: Is everyone expected to run these thru an equalizing processor? I mean, should I expect honky voices on the DUO and mud on the S2EX with no EQ? Will my life change drastically with a new fangled receiver/processor with Dirac/YPAO/Audyssey? I dont have the ability to try it at the moment, and won't before i have to send these back. I just hooked up those 40 year old Advents and am amazed how good they still sound compared to the S2ex! Not better, but smoother in most of the range.

[Qman]

Please post a picture of the front of your room where the speakers are located. Posting / uploading a picture is extremely easy and takes a few seconds of time. When making a post, simply scroll down and hit the button that says "manage attachments" Self-explanatory from there.

This is really an odd situation, in many tens of thousands of Sierra customers, you are the first person to ever describe the speakers as muddy. Running the speakers full range together with a subwoofer is simply a bad idea. In addition, having your couch against the back wall is also a bad idea as that is a prime spot for significant bass reinforcement / room modes.

Based on the fact that you like the way an in-wall / in-ceiling speaker sounds when used as a front left/right front speaker - cements the fact that either you prefer speakers with little bass or you have rather significant issues with your room acoustics. in-wall / in-ceiling speakers use the inner part of the wall as the rear air chamber. When used in open air with no rear chamber (as you did), they will have basically no bass whatsoever, typically rolling off in the 200Hz range, thus not exciting room modes or more to your preference with very little bass. In addition, a well designed in-wall speaker is voiced to use the wall for baffle compensation, when not placed in the wall - there will be a very steep rise in the midrange, perhaps also to your preference.

The Sierra-2EX are very neutral with extended and dynamic bass for a bookshelf speaker, from your description of what you are hearing, you need a speaker with a more limited frequency range and a rising midrange response. These are not those speakers and unless you are willing to post a pic of your room setup, nobody here can assist you further.

You can also email me the pic of your room.

The only other piece of advice I can offer you is to order another set of bookshelf speakers and compare directly - which is recommended because you might run into the same exact issue. Again, using an in-wall speaker used out-of-the-wall, dramatically affects the performance of that speaker in a negative way - which seems to be a positive for your preferences / room acoustics.

Thanks for all your input Dave. I see now that the file size is severely limited for uploads.
I'm not sure where the idea came from that I'm using an In-wall/ceiling speaker out of the wall, but I am certainly not!

I do like my fair share of bass, and I was definitely using the Sub with the in-ceiling speakers when I was trying them as main L+R. I do NOT have a problem with the bass I get with the 2EX....but once we get past about (guessing) 150 Hz, things start to get ugly for me. Its very strange that I dont seem to get the resolution I expected either. As I said above, I connected up those ancient Advents and the soundstage opened up with greater detail combined with a mellow sound. The bass is pretty bad on them, and they wont take any power before the sound turns sour. The things i found great with the 2EX is the impact and punch, and the fact that you can feed them power and they dont mind at all, just keep sounding the same. I'd really like to try some room correction EQ electronics on these before I have to return them, but I do not have the opportunity at the moment. And I can tell you that I DO NOT like peaky midrange, in fact I'd rather have the inverse if given the choice. Very frustrated.

[curtis]

I guess a big question I have is: Is everyone expected to run these thru an equalizing processor? I mean, should I expect honky voices on the DUO and mud on the S2EX with no EQ? Will my life change drastically with a new fangled receiver/processor with Dirac/YPAO/Audyssey? I dont have the ability to try it at the moment, and won't before i have to send these back. I just hooked up those 40 year old Advents and am amazed how good they still sound compared to the S2ex! Not better, but smoother in most of the range.

No...you shouldn't expect to run it through an EQ.

The other thing is you could just really like what you have been using in the past.

[Qman]

No...you shouldn't expect to run it through an EQ.

The other thing is you could just really like what you have been using in the past.

I'm obviously not happy with what ive got or i wouldn't be looking for nww speakers! Let's put it this way: The most detailed speaker ive ever heard is the VMPS RM40. But it lacked impact. The S2EX is the opposite. It has awesome impact but lacks in detail and smoothness. Granted we're comparing tower vs bookshelf, but id expect detail and smoothness just the same.

[diesel79]

My EX’s are extremely clear and detailed. Everyone that I demo my set up for cannot believe the sound that comes from these bookshelves. Your experience with them is not what I would call the norm.

At any rate, nobody is trying to convince your ears otherwise. If you don’t like them, you don’t like them. Send them back and move on and hopefully find something you like.

[davef]

So here is my living room setup, (not HT, no DUO) running full range, no sub. Dimensions are 13 x 22 x 8 with half open wall to right to kitchen. I have them sitting on an ancient pair of Advent speakers from 1981 (which still sound ok!) I think you can see there is NO cover on the tweeters.
Attachment 1974

Thanks for posting this picture. Placing a speaker on top of another speaker is generally a very bad idea. The speaker that is active (in this case, the EX) will cause the inactive speaker to resonate sympathetically (especially the large woofer in those old Advents). That sympathetic vibration from the inactive speaker will, in fact, produce sound. I recommend you place the speakers on dedicated stands and move those old Advents out of the room, or at least to the opposite side of the room.

That stated - and as others have commented, your characterization of the performance of these speakers is the polar opposite from the many thousands of other customers who own them. It sounds to me like you are simply used to a specific type of sound signature that is not neutral, and that is OK.

Let me ask you a few more questions:

1. Are you using CD's as your source material? If not, what is your source material?

2. what amp / receiver combination are you using in this room?

3. From your listening position, try standing up, sitting down - walking left/right a bit. Is there a particular position where all of a sudden, things sound more detailed to you?

With regard to the 30-day guarantee, I am happy to extend this for you since we are trying some things out, so please feel free to give a new receiver a try if you like - or try some different bookshelf speakers to directly compare (but it is important to have the speakers in the same position when comparing)

[mikesiskav]

Ditto on the speaker stands. Placing them on top of those large Advent speakers is creating a baffle surface which will boost the woofer frequencies which can lead to boominess and muddy sound. Same thing applies in your HT setup. Not to mention the large subwoofer sitting so close to the speaker.

[djDANNY]

Thanks for posting this picture. Placing a speaker on top of another speaker is generally a very bad idea. The speaker that is active (in this case, the EX) will cause the inactive speaker to resonate sympathetically (especially the large woofer in those old Advents). That sympathetic vibration from the inactive speaker will, in fact, produce sound.

I’ve never heard of this before. Is it the physical vibrations from the active cabinet that’s causing the inactive cabinet to resonate? Or is it the sound waves being produced by the active speaker that is causing some sort of resonance in the inactive speaker?

If it’s the first, then wouldn’t isolators between the two speakers address that issue? If it’s the latter, then does it mean when I’m listening to 2 channel music and my center channel is off that it’s coloring the sound?

[davef]

I’ve never heard of this before. Is it the physical vibrations from the active cabinet that’s causing the inactive cabinet to resonate? Or is it the sound waves being produced by the active speaker that is causing some sort of resonance in the inactive speaker?

If it’s the first, then wouldn’t isolators between the two speakers address that issue? If it’s the latter, then does it mean when I’m listening to 2 channel music and my center channel is off that it’s coloring the sound?

It is a combination of both cabinet resonance being transferred as well as soundwaves. Proper terminology is sympathetic resonance. and there are dozens of classic examples of this by doing a google search on the phenomenon. Most common example is the classic "tuning fork" example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxRkOQmzLgo

With speakers, as in placing one speaker on top of another with one speaker not being active and being used as a stand, the effect is quite audible and measurable. One way to minimize (but not completely reduce) this effect is to short together the positive and negative inputs of the INACTIVE speaker.

Here is another good video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo

This is probably the best example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sojjAyC5RzA

[Qman]

Folks, ive got some apologizing to do. I moved the ex's back down to the HT and on the receiver. Started playing with the sub settings. I then realized i had the sub dial set to180degrees out of phase! Next, i also realized i had sub set xover set too low. (You can set the xover as low as 45Hz). Night and day. My receiver wont xover lower than 100. So obviously i had a gap. Biggest downside is the bass starts to become directional at higher freqs. Still.lacking some detail, but smoothness is much nicer. Would be nice to have some better resolution in the 150-200 range...a problem for smaller woofers i suspect? Something the Legacy Focus excelled at, given 3 12-inch drivers per side!
Now, onto the duo....i pulled it away from the TV about 2 ft, and a lot of the boomyness disappeared. Strange since these are supposedly wall mountable. Question is, how to position it properly without being in the middle of the room? Something an EQ should resolve i guess! I

Next, is my sources. My excellent Linn multi player died a few years ago. So ive been using 2 different dvd players for cds. But their audio outputs can be set for varios audio effects and surround duties. I wasnt sure i had the proper setting on either one. So now im playing a cheap portable player! I need to spend more $$!
To answer Daves question on amp, i was using my Bryston B60 for 2 ch.
Sorry again.