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Thread: Finally pulled the trigger.

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    That said, alot of people (myself included) focus on the lower frequencies (say no more than 250 or 300 HZ).
    FWIW, I am one these people, but my eq is set at 400hz and below(I think as it has been set for a while).

    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    My receiver is old enough to not have a feedback mic. Sub is a Legacy Pacemaker, crossed at 45Hz, EXs running full range. although most of my listening last night was no sub.
    Not the main issue since most of your listening was done without the sub, but the speakers fullrange plus sub crossed at 45hz is going to give you extra bass above and below the crossover.
    -curtis

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
    This isn't the speakers. It's your room. You've probably run up against a room mode that causes a peak in the mid-bass at your major listening position. Probably coupled with rapid reflections off that wall behind the listening position (causing the muddiness), and reflections off the ceiling and side walls making it sound boxy ("small room sound").

    Now that you have the speakers that show you what the room is doing, treating the room is in order. This means not just absorption, but also diffusion (especially behind your listening position [if I've interpreted the physical relationships in that room correctly] and at the first reflection points on sidewalls and ceiling (if you can)), and of course bass traps.

    One quick thing to try is to move your listening position off that back wall a foot or 18" as a test. If your midbass "bloat" changes, you'll know for sure it's a room mode problem.

    Probably not what you wanted to hear. But this is the way acoustics in small rooms usually plays out.

    Of course you can (I really recommend it) also get an AVR with good room EQ software, anything from the Audyssey system to Dirac, ARC, etc. These systems typically EQ the frequency response of the room (as experienced at and around the listening position) for at last the bottom few octaves to full range, depending on the system and its settings.

    I've been using Audyssey on my old Denon X-4000 for years, and it does an outstanding job fixing some problems I've got in my listening room. Makes that little Luna Duo center a serious joy to listen to -- perfectly flat response, clean crisp dialog. My wife loves the Duo!

    Best of all worlds, treat the room, then run EQ software on top of that. The problems you're describing will be a distant memory.
    Thanks for your input. I did move around the room to see how that might change but the boominess/mud existed at all points, even into the next room. The room is not that small; It's about 14x23' with one end partially opened to the kitchen (its a split level house). I dont think we will be able to move much with the listening position, as this is our HT room with a big sectional couch! Its interesting too that I've had a few other speakers in that room, but never had peaky resonances in that freq range before, usually much lower.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    FWIW, I am one these people, but my eq is set at 400hz and below(I think as it has been set for a while).


    Not the main issue since most of your listening was done without the sub, but the speakers fullrange plus sub crossed at 45hz is going to give you extra bass above and below the crossover.
    Thanks Curtis. The "extra bass" i was experiencing was nowhere near 45 Hz....like I said, it was much higher. Most of the issues ive had with that room using other speakers have been typical room nodes (8 ft ceiling, etc) so the standing waves were more like 80Hz. I will not have the chance to try a new AVR with EQ before i have to make a decision on these. Maybe I can take them out to the back yard on a nice day! :-)

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    My receiver is old enough to not have a feedback mic. Sub is a Legacy Pacemaker, crossed at 45Hz, EXs running full range. although most of my listening last night was no sub. I'll connect the Bryston in next couple days and see how that works out. It will be in a different room so that should be telling. The center channel is what really makes me scratch my head. You'd think it would be pretty clear/not boomy out of the box.
    When I run speakers full range plus subs my experience is pretty much spot on with what you describe. I don't think swapping in an amp is gonna make any difference at all.

    Try with subs and 80 hz crossover instead of running them full range once. My personal experience with a higher crossover has been that my speakers seem to have just a little more clarity and headroom. My theory is that taking some of the load off your amp and speakers frees them up to focus on the mids and highs with less distortion where they shine. Subwoofers live in the bass region and can handle 80 hz and down much better than most speakers will.

    But don't just listen to me. Check it out for yourself. You might just prefer it!

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    Thanks Curtis. The "extra bass" i was experiencing was nowhere near 45 Hz....like I said, it was much higher. Most of the issues ive had with that room using other speakers have been typical room nodes (8 ft ceiling, etc) so the standing waves were more like 80Hz. I will not have the chance to try a new AVR with EQ before i have to make a decision on these. Maybe I can take them out to the back yard on a nice day! :-)
    I agree with curtis. You're likely getting a double bass effect with the subs on. Your subs are still playing frequencies well above 45 hz. It's not a brick wall.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    I will move the S2ex's to 2 channel in a different room using my Bryston B60 Integrated, and a decent CD player, with more proper room spacing.

    This will be a good test.
    What speakers are there now?
    -curtis

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
    When I run speakers full range plus subs my experience is pretty much spot on with what you describe. I don't think swapping in an amp is gonna make any difference at all.

    Try with subs and 80 hz crossover instead of running them full range once. My personal experience with a higher crossover has been that my speakers seem to have just a little more clarity and headroom. My theory is that taking some of the load off your amp and speakers frees them up to focus on the mids and highs with less distortion where they shine. Subwoofers live in the bass region and can handle 80 hz and down much better than most speakers will.

    But don't just listen to me. Check it out for yourself. You might just prefer it!
    Thanks for the suggestion! When I was listening multichannel for a short period, they were crossed over at 100Hz (AVR doesnt go any lower). I noticed no change in sound.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    This will be a good test.
    What speakers are there now?[/COLOR]
    Some ancient old Advents! I had custom towers there before we decided they were too big for our remodel (PHL and Raven ribbon Drivers, locally made cabinets that I could never get to sound right). Prior to that I had Legacy Focus towers.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
    I agree with curtis. You're likely getting a double bass effect with the subs on. Your subs are still playing frequencies well above 45 hz. It's not a brick wall.
    Again, most of my listening was done w/o sub on. And, I liked what i heard when i did turn on the sub!

  10. #20
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    Feb 2013
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    Default Re: Finally pulled the trigger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    Thanks Curtis. The "extra bass" i was experiencing was nowhere near 45 Hz....like I said, it was much higher. Most of the issues ive had with that room using other speakers have been typical room nodes (8 ft ceiling, etc) so the standing waves were more like 80Hz. I will not have the chance to try a new AVR with EQ before i have to make a decision on these. Maybe I can take them out to the back yard on a nice day! :-)
    Of course, you'll have to work out what you can in your situation, but that is not my experience of these speakers at all.

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