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Thread: 200s vs. 170s vs. 340s

  1. #31
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    Aug 2003
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    Hi S_rangeBrew,

    Sounds like you are having some fun

    Just wanted to share some thoughts with you...

    They are very "clear" compared to the JBL E20s. The E20s sound like they have a cloth over them in comparison.
    This is exactly what we were after with the HTM-200. Very distinct, intelligible and detailed sound. You must keep in mind that this is a true satellite speaker, designed to be used with secondary bass reinforcement (subwoofer etc.). While I do not have any first hand experience with the JBLs you mention, these are a ported speaker and their response is listed (from what I managed to find) at -3dB at 68hz. I suspect that cabinet is tuned to around 60-70Hz which in most cases means that there will be quite a bit of output at these frequencies (bumped up), compared with a sealed enclosure.

    Using an 80Hz high pass filter will filter the low frequency response, but it is a gradual filter, not a brick wall, meaning that there is still plenty of information below 80Hz that will be reproduced. In the JBL design, the bump in the bass response will still be heard and while this can most definitely be enjoyable, it is not accurate sound reproduction and can become a distraction over time.

    when I listen to the JBLs, most of the sound comes from in between them. I guess you would say, from the middle of the soundstage. With the HTM-200s, some things (like vocals) come from the middle, but with other sounds, it is very easy to tell which speaker they are coming from. I don't know if I like that right now.
    This is indeed interesting. In most cases, vocals should come from dead center and other instruments should come from off toward one side. Think about how a concert stage or band is setup. The HTM-200s have wide horizontal dispersion so what you might be experiencing is simply an expanded soundstage compared to a tighter one.

    However, there are some factors that can wreak havoc; depending on how close to the side walls and how far apart the speakers are from each other, the HTM-200 can benefit from placing them so their tweeters are on the inside (as opposed to the outside). Also, toeing them in about 5 degrees toward the listening position can help "shrink" the soundstage.

    Regardless of which speaker better suits your tastes, have fun!!!
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Ellsworth, ME
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    144

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    Quote Originally Posted by davef
    Hi S_rangeBrew,

    Sounds like you are having some fun

    Just wanted to share some thoughts with you...
    A lot of fun. My wife is helping out too, and actually seems to have a bit better ear than I do. The fact I'm using mostly music she likes (Sade, Nora Jones) to test helps. She doesn't really understand the SPL meter and test tones. She thinks they are annoying and loud. I cannot argue with that.


    This is exactly what we were after with the HTM-200. Very distinct, intelligible and detailed sound. You must keep in mind that this is a true satellite speaker, designed to be used with secondary bass reinforcement (subwoofer etc.). While I do not have any first hand experience with the JBLs you mention, these are a ported speaker and their response is listed (from what I managed to find) at -3dB at 68hz. I suspect that cabinet is tuned to around 60-70Hz which in most cases means that there will be quite a bit of output at these frequencies (bumped up), compared with a sealed enclosure.
    Thanks for saving me a lot of typing! I was just about to write as an update pretty much what you just said. The HTMs were clearer than the JBLs, without being harsh like the Polk Studio 30s, (which use a cloth dome tweeter like the HTMs, but if you look at the cloth, the HTM dome looks like a much finer weave than the Polk cloth... I don't know if that makes any sense) which is what I was hoping for. Sade sounded much clearer on the Ascends, but still sultry. On the Polks, she was clear, but harsh. On the JBLs, smooth but muffled. None were *bad*, but the differences were clear. Everyone could hear the same thing as me, without any prompting. What I described as "clear" my wife described as "acoustical".

    After listening a lot more tonight, I found that what I thought was better bass on the JBLs was actually sounding like extra "boom"... neat special effect at first, but a bit annoying after awhile. This was confirmed with test tones and a RS SPL meter. I tested each speaker, one at a time, at the same distance (about 2 feet). I can tell you that the manufacturing on both is consistent, as both JBLs matched at all tones, and so did the Ascends. What I found was the curves were pretty much the same for both brands, from 1000hz down to 90hz, then the JBL started acting a bit strange. It dropped off more than the Ascend at 80hz, then started going up again... after the x-over point! Here is an Excel Spreadsheet

    Using an 80Hz high pass filter will filter the low frequency response, but it is a gradual filter, not a brick wall, meaning that there is still plenty of information below 80Hz that will be reproduced. In the JBL design, the bump in the bass response will still be heard and while this can most definitely be enjoyable, it is not accurate sound reproduction and can become a distraction over time.
    Hit the nail on the head.

    This is indeed interesting. In most cases, vocals should come from dead center and other instruments should come from off toward one side. Think about how a concert stage or band is setup. The HTM-200s have wide horizontal dispersion so what you might be experiencing is simply an expanded soundstage compared to a tighter one.

    However, there are some factors that can wreak havoc; depending on how close to the side walls and how far apart the speakers are from each other, the HTM-200 can benefit from placing them so their tweeters are on the inside (as opposed to the outside). Also, toeing them in about 5 degrees toward the listening position can help "shrink" the soundstage.
    I think I made more of this than it actually is. Listening some more tonight, it really wasn't that big a deal. I will take your advice and try different placement, I'm sure they will be fine.

    Regardless of which speaker better suits your tastes, have fun!!!
    I'm going with the HTM-200s, even though they cost almost twice as much as the JBLs. (Online. At Best Buy, the JBLs cost the same as the Ascends!) The build quality and the support really add a lot of value, but the most important thing is the sound quality. We are going to be listening to these for many years. If you could put a dollar value on sound quality, then multiply it over time, these things will definitly pay for themselves.
    Last edited by S_rangeBrew; 03-03-2005 at 09:11 PM.

  3. #33
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    Feb 2005
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    I did some "torture" testing of the HTM-200s yesterday. A lot of music in the 80db to 95db range. I wanted to see what they could handle.

    It all sounded very clear, and they had no problems. These little things pass the ROCK test. I was a bit worried, but the two 4" woofers seem to be up to the task.

    They really seperate the well-mixed from the poorly-mixed! Def Lepard's "Hysteria" is a sonic work of art. Mutt Lange is a genious.

    I did find the HTM-200s Achilles Heel:
    Kelis "Milkshake", sounded kind of strange. There is this repeating bass sound that makes the little 4" drivers vibrate like crazy in that song. Because of this, I must sadly return the HTM-200s. Kelis is my life.

    Ha Ha. Just Kidding.

    Good Jazz music is wonderful on these. The voices, the instruments are all played with such clarity. I don't feel like I'm missing anything. Even so, after listening at these extended volumes for probably 5 hours or more, there was no fatigue. Good stuff.

    Movie watching: Gladiator has a great DTS soundtrack. We watched this about 15db below reference, and when "hell" was unleashed at the start of the movie, it was kind of scary! I cannot wait for my house to get finished so I can buy the other 5 HTM-200s and hear this movie in glorioius 7.1 DTS!

    I honestly feel that these things are the best compromise between sound, price and size you can get. Better sounding than a **** cube, yet still small enough to mount in most of the same places. As good or better down to 80hz than any other speaker, yet far more svelte and image-friendly.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    17

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    So why wait to buy the other 5? Buy now, enjoy now! We're building a house also with scheduled move-in in mid May but I bought an Ascend/Hsu 5.1 system and set up the fronts and sub in our current house. They sound so good I have no regrets not waiting!

    By the way, just kidding about what - returning the HTM's? That Kelis is your life? Or, that the HTM's vibrated like crazy (which means what?)?

    Ron.

  5. #35
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    Feb 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by debron
    So why wait to buy the other 5? Buy now, enjoy now! We're building a house also with scheduled move-in in mid May but I bought an Ascend/Hsu 5.1 system and set up the fronts and sub in our current house. They sound so good I have no regrets not waiting!

    By the way, just kidding about what - returning the HTM's? That Kelis is your life? Or, that the HTM's vibrated like crazy (which means what?)?

    Ron.
    I don't have room, or I would have bought all 7 at once and saved some cash.

    I was kidding about everything except the HTM woofers moving like crazy on that damn annoying "Milkshake" song. They were really going nuts.

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