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Thread: Thinking of adding a second sub

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Quote Originally Posted by white_darren View Post
    Putting a ported sub in the same space as the non-ported really does nothing to impact nulls/peaks associated with placement in the room. And he has already indicated he doesn't need any more output, just trying to even out the bass response across his listening area thus the relevant feedback is about room integration not ported vs sealed. My point about about the OP not benefiting as much from ported was that port tuning typically allows the sub to dig a little deeper - something that is typically more relevant to movies than music unless he listens to a lot of organ music.

    I can't speak to everyone's tastes in bass levels but I will say that our single E15HP is capable of providing far more bass than we can stand even though it's operating in an open space of 20k cu ft thus we don't even need to use half of what it's capable of - plenty of headroom there.

    As for raising the sub, I was merely providing food for thought by sharing what worked for us with regard to room integration especially since it's an approach that seems a little out of the ordinary. I'm not suggesting that the OP would find the idea acceptable or that it would even address his room integration issues since every space is different but it might get the creative juices flowing or be relevant to others reading this in the future.
    How big is your room?

    Agreed. Room modes will be room modes whether using ported or sealed. However, I never said plopping a ported sub into a problem spot would fix a null... in fact I don't think op said anything about nulls either (yet). Placement is probably the biggest factor, for sure. As for even bass response, I've managed this from a pair of ported subs in my 6,000'^3 space.

    04-05-20 Final-600x232.jpg
    04-05-20 Waterfall-600x262.jpg

    I've had sealed subs in my room and there is no way I could achieve that response with only 2 of them. I've tried.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Quote Originally Posted by white_darren View Post
    I can't speak to everyone's tastes in bass levels but I will say that our single E15HP is capable of providing far more bass than we can stand even though it's operating in an open space of 20k cu ft thus we don't even need to use half of what it's capable of - plenty of headroom there.
    Wait a minute... your space is + 20,000'^3?!? Is that a typo or do you live in an airplane hangar?? lol
    Last edited by Pogre; 05-30-2020 at 11:06 AM.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Thanks for the further inputs, Pogre and white_darren.

    No, I don't listen to alot of organ music. Mainly rock (metal, classic, southern, prog), jazz, female vocals, and classical on occasion. So, don't need anything which digs deeper.

    I do have GIK corner traps (4' high) in the front corners along with a pair of 2'x2'x8" GIK super bass traps as recommended by GIK. Current sub is sitting on an Auralex subdude. I could possibly raise the sub another several inches before it wouldn't look ok aesthetically. I'm less concerned about the height than the width & depth. Hence, why the L22 as an option (or the E22 which I just learned about on the AVS Rythmik thread - essentially the L22 w/ the Al drivers).

    I do have measurement options - Quick Measure via ARC Genesis, which I used to adjust gain. I've not used it (yet) to experiment with placement, although somewhat limited options due to room layout. Plus my current sub cable is only 6' (although I do have a 20' BJC one lying around somewhere). Could use this to change orientation of driver (eg it's facing the room now, but could rotate sub 90 degrees to face small side wall). As is, Genesis showed a couple of dips of about 6 db around 40 HZ and 70 Hz, which ARC is able to flatten (at least predicted as it doesn't show actual corrected curve and would need to validate with REW).

    I also have REW and a UMIK-1 mic, but have not used it yet to any extent. One of these days I'll sit down with the guide and tinker with it.

    Another placement challenge is availability of outlets and minimizing interconnect runs across bare floors.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Quote Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
    Wait a minute... your space is + 20,000'^3?!? Is that a typo or do you live in an airplane hangar?? lol
    Not a typo. It's a very open floor plan with 10ft+ ceilings throughout. That's the entire open volume, not just the main listening space.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    Thanks for the further inputs, Pogre and white_darren.

    No, I don't listen to alot of organ music. Mainly rock (metal, classic, southern, prog), jazz, female vocals, and classical on occasion. So, don't need anything which digs deeper.

    I do have GIK corner traps (4' high) in the front corners along with a pair of 2'x2'x8" GIK super bass traps as recommended by GIK. Current sub is sitting on an Auralex subdude. I could possibly raise the sub another several inches before it wouldn't look ok aesthetically. I'm less concerned about the height than the width & depth. Hence, why the L22 as an option (or the E22 which I just learned about on the AVS Rythmik thread - essentially the L22 w/ the Al drivers).

    I do have measurement options - Quick Measure via ARC Genesis, which I used to adjust gain. I've not used it (yet) to experiment with placement, although somewhat limited options due to room layout. Plus my current sub cable is only 6' (although I do have a 20' BJC one lying around somewhere). Could use this to change orientation of driver (eg it's facing the room now, but could rotate sub 90 degrees to face small side wall). As is, Genesis showed a couple of dips of about 6 db around 40 HZ and 70 Hz, which ARC is able to flatten (at least predicted as it doesn't show actual corrected curve and would need to validate with REW).

    I also have REW and a UMIK-1 mic, but have not used it yet to any extent. One of these days I'll sit down with the guide and tinker with it.

    Another placement challenge is availability of outlets and minimizing interconnect runs across bare floors.
    TOOL is hands down my favorite band. Most of my music is in that vein. They do have a decent amount of bass in their music too.

    Anyhoo... I don't mean to get so sidetracked. There are some myths and misconceptions when it comes to the ported vs sealed debate and it drives me nuts sometimes.

    Once you get your arms around using REW with the UMIK I think you're really gonna like it. It's a great way to see exactly what's going on in your room. As far as placement goes, have you heard of the sub crawl?



    I know it seems goofy, but it's worked really well for me in finding a good spot. I know sometimes the "best" spot isn't always best aesthetically, but you can also find 2nd and 3rd best spots that might work just as well with a little room EQ. I do think you would benefit from a second E15HP. A 2nd sub is always better for evening out your response and the little extra headroom doesn't hurt either.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Looking at the specs it does appear you might get a little more performance from the L22s. Whether it would be enough to justify the extra expense I'm not sure. I think if I were in your boat it would probably come down to budget. If you have the dough and you're excited for an upgrade I'd get dual L22s. If you wanna save a little dough, I think another E15HP would do almost as well. They're not too awful far apart spec-wise, but I like the look of the L22s and they might have a little bit more built in tuning flexibility.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Yes, I've heard of the sub crawl, but thanks for the reminder.
    I am leaning towards the 2nd E15 as it would be easiest on the budget. But a pair of E22 (these aren't on Rythmik's site, but are essentially the L22 with the Aluminum woofers) is tempting.

    I like TOOL as well. Have a few of their albums. My all time favorite band is Black Sabbath.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    Yes, I've heard of the sub crawl, but thanks for the reminder.
    I am leaning towards the 2nd E15 as it would be easiest on the budget. But a pair of E22 (these aren't on Rythmik's site, but are essentially the L22 with the Aluminum woofers) is tempting.

    I like TOOL as well. Have a few of their albums. My all time favorite band is Black Sabbath.
    I think you and I could have an enjoyable evening listening to and sharing music! I don't listen to Sabbath like I did back in the day, but they'll always have a spot in my heart and I don't skip their songs. Most of my favorite bands were influenced one way or another by them.

    Yeah, I like those L22s too, but I think you'll get just about as good with a 2nd E15. I haven't seen the E22s. Aluminum cones you say! Isn't audio fun? Every time you think you're set something new and cool makes its way on your radar. That's what brought me here. I stumbled across a pair of pristine Sierra 2s in piano gloss black on Craigslist for $650 so I jumped on them. Fast forward a couple of weeks and here I am, waiting for my towers, lol.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Quote Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
    I think you and I could have an enjoyable evening listening to and sharing music! I don't listen to Sabbath like I did back in the day, but they'll always have a spot in my heart and I don't skip their songs. Most of my favorite bands were influenced one way or another by them.

    Yeah, I like those L22s too, but I think you'll get just about as good with a 2nd E15. I haven't seen the E22s. Aluminum cones you say! Isn't audio fun? Every time you think you're set something new and cool makes its way on your radar. That's what brought me here. I stumbled across a pair of pristine Sierra 2s in piano gloss black on Craigslist for $650 so I jumped on them. Fast forward a couple of weeks and here I am, waiting for my towers, lol.
    Agreed - I think it would make for a great evening since we seem to have similar musical tastes!

    I started with S2's and then moved to the Towers after a couple of years. You'll love the Towers!

  10. #20
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    Feb 2013
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    191

    Default Re: Thinking of adding a second sub

    Quote Originally Posted by pogre View Post
    ...
    Placement is probably the biggest factor, for sure. As for even bass response, i've managed this from a pair of ported subs in my 6,000'^3 space.
    04-05-20 Final-600x232.jpg
    04-05-20 Waterfall-600x262.jpg
    ...
    REALLY NICE! Have you pursued your dips at 120 and 180?

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