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Thread: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Oh, and what did you think of CCT? Danny Carey is hands down my favorite drummer. His ability to keep time with odd signatures and use of polyrythms is mind boggling. He's not your typical heavy metal drummer at all. He has some serious schooling and also plays jazz and fusion stuff. He can do it all.

    Last edited by Pogre; 04-26-2020 at 10:48 AM.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Great stuff!

    Look up Drum Improvisation by Jim Keltner. Should be available on Tidal and Qobuz. Well recorded and excellent dynamics. You are going need to turn it up.
    -curtis

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    Excellent. Speakers set to small, right? I think you are set.

    BTW, I have heard the Sierra-2's in Ascend's demo room, full range, and pretty freaking loud. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
    Dave seems to think that I have warranty voiding issues to worry about! "Very problematic" to be specific, given my listening distance. Tho I'm not certain if he knows I'm using subs and a crossover too so I quoted him for clarification.

    That said, he made my internal debate over whether to get the EX upgrade or shoot for the towers easy to conclude. Another speaker I've been looking at is Salk's Song3, which also has a Raal tweeter and a slightly better bass response. Are you familiar with Jim and Dennis' work? I know it'd be $400 more for the Song3. I'm kinda shooting for that last speaker purchase if you know what I mean? I'm willing to spend a little more if it's tangible.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
    Dave seems to think that I have warranty voiding issues to worry about! "Very problematic" to be specific, given my listening distance. Tho I'm not certain if he knows I'm using subs and a crossover too so I quoted him for clarification.

    That said, he made my internal debate over whether to get the EX upgrade or shoot for the towers easy to conclude. Another speaker I've been looking at is Salk's Song3, which also has a Raal tweeter and a slightly better bass response. Are you familiar with Jim and Dennis' work? I know it'd be $400 more for the Song3. I'm kinda shooting for that last speaker purchase if you know what I mean? I'm willing to spend a little more if it's tangible.
    Yes, I saw that. If you play reference all the time, I would agree.

    I have heard plenty of Jim/Dennis' stuff. You pay a lot for the cabinet work. The one thing that I always found different between Dennis' work and Dave's, is the imaging. Dave/Ascend has some kind of special sauce.

    Personally, I don't see any reason to go for a Song3 over the Sierra Tower w/RAAL.
    -curtis

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
    Dave seems to think that I have warranty voiding issues to worry about! "Very problematic" to be specific, given my listening distance. Tho I'm not certain if he knows I'm using subs and a crossover too so I quoted him for clarification.

    That said, he made my internal debate over whether to get the EX upgrade or shoot for the towers easy to conclude. Another speaker I've been looking at is Salk's Song3, which also has a Raal tweeter and a slightly better bass response. Are you familiar with Jim and Dennis' work? I know it'd be $400 more for the Song3. I'm kinda shooting for that last speaker purchase if you know what I mean? I'm willing to spend a little more if it's tangible.
    Salk Song 3 is a nice speaker, but it is really no different than the Sierra-2 from about 60Hz and up with regard to power handling and sensitivity. The Song Song 3 essentially uses the same RAAL ribbon as our Sierra-2 and a significantly smaller midrange. The issues that I have mentioned is power handling of the speaker and clipping of your amp or receiver to reach the volume levels at your listening distance. The result of testing these limits might very well be a torn 64-10 ribbon tweeter (expensive to replace).

    We use RAAL's best ribbon tweeter in our tower for just this reason, a custom version of their 70-20xram. This ribbon can handle about 3x the power of the 64-10 and has a unique damping system that prevents various types of distortion (such as transverse waves caused by clipping) from tearing the ribbon. This ribbon is specifically designed for massive dynamics, an even smoother polar response and the ribbon element can be replaced without having to replace the entire tweeter. The 70-20xram is also about 4-5 times the cost of the 64-10 but for those that want to play at reference levels, or anywhere close - especially at a 15 foot listening distance, it is the safest and best choice.

    In addition, the 3dB higher sensitivity of our tower is very important in your situation. If you are not familiar with how this works, it means that if it takes 200 watts of power to reach reference level peaks in the Song 3, it will take half that power to reach the same volume level with our towers (100 watts)

    If you are looking at Salk and want to stick with the ribbon, look at something with 90dB+ sensitivity and that uses the RAAL 70-20
    .
    .
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Salk Song 3 is a nice speaker, but it is really no different than the Sierra-2 from about 60Hz and up with regard to power handling and sensitivity. The Song Song 3 essentially uses the same RAAL ribbon as our Sierra-2 and a significantly smaller midrange. The issues that I have mentioned is power handling of the speaker and clipping of your amp or receiver to reach the volume levels at your listening distance. The result of testing these limits might very well be a torn 64-10 ribbon tweeter (expensive to replace).

    We use RAAL's best ribbon tweeter in our tower for just this reason, a custom version of their 70-20xram. This ribbon can handle about 3x the power of the 64-10 and has a unique damping system that prevents various types of distortion (such as transverse waves caused by clipping) from tearing the ribbon. This ribbon is specifically designed for massive dynamics, an even smoother polar response and the ribbon element can be replaced without having to replace the entire tweeter. The 70-20xram is also about 4-5 times the cost of the 64-10 but for those that want to play at reference levels, or anywhere close - especially at a 15 foot listening distance, it is the safest and best choice.

    In addition, the 3dB higher sensitivity of our tower is very important in your situation. If you are not familiar with how this works, it means that if it takes 200 watts of power to reach reference level peaks in the Song 3, it will take half that power to reach the same volume level with our towers (100 watts)

    If you are looking at Salk and want to stick with the ribbon, look at something with 90dB+ sensitivity and that uses the RAAL 70-20
    I understand how power equates to spl. A doubling of power for every additional 3 dB. ~9 dB to perceive a doubling in volume? I know it racks up fast. To be clear, I'm not sitting in my room with the volume pegged for hours and hours. I appreciate my hearing even more than my equipment, lol. I'm probably 80% music, 15% random videos on YouTube and 5% movies. 65-75 dB would be my normal listening range at my seat but I do like it loud sometimes and bump it up close to reference.

    My current speakers (SVS Utra towers) claim 88 dB sensitivity. I understand going to yours (or any other speaker) with a sensitivity of 5 dB more is a huge difference in power required to reach those higher spls. I've pretty much already talked myself into the Raal Sierra towers. I already know what the Sierra 2 sounds like and I suddenly find myself to be a great admirer of your work. I think they're gorgeous looking in piano black and they sound amazing. I went to your site, got logged in with an account and went as far as adding a pair of towers to my basket...

    Then I figured I'd better work on my shmooze game and run it by my wife first, lol.

    Speaking of piano gloss black..? Is there an upcharge for the towers in piano gloss?

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pogre View Post
    I understand how power equates to spl. A doubling of power for every additional 3 dB. ~9 dB to perceive a doubling in volume? I know it racks up fast. To be clear, I'm not sitting in my room with the volume pegged for hours and hours. I appreciate my hearing even more than my equipment, lol. I'm probably 80% music, 15% random videos on YouTube and 5% movies. 65-75 dB would be my normal listening range at my seat but I do like it loud sometimes and bump it up close to reference.

    My current speakers (SVS Utra towers) claim 88 dB sensitivity. I understand going to yours (or any other speaker) with a sensitivity of 5 dB more is a huge difference in power required to reach those higher spls. I've pretty much already talked myself into the Raal Sierra towers. I already know what the Sierra 2 sounds like and I suddenly find myself to be a great admirer of your work. I think they're gorgeous looking in piano black and they sound amazing. I went to your site, got logged in with an account and went as far as adding a pair of towers to my basket...

    Then I figured I'd better work on my shmooze game and run it by my wife first, lol.

    Speaking of piano gloss black..? Is there an upcharge for the towers in piano gloss?
    Glad that you understand the relationship between power and spl, you must also factor distance into that (most consumers mistakenly forget about that).

    I am sorry but we do not offer piano black on our towers. Give us a call or send an email to discuss finish options once you are able to convince the wife.

    thanks again!
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Glad that you understand the relationship between power and spl, you must also factor distance into that (most consumers mistakenly forget about that).

    I am sorry but we do not offer piano black on our towers. Give us a call or send an email to discuss finish options once you are able to convince the wife.

    thanks again!
    Right. Isn't it something like 6 dB down for every meter? I'm totally picking up what you're putting down. I do sit pretty far from my speakers. Another thing that might serve me well is looking at scooching my MLP a little closer. The problem there is, when I had it closer it was right smack in the middle of a null and my bass response was awful. That's why I scooted so far back to begin with.

    This is such a fun hobby, lol.

    She doesn't know it yet, but operation wife schmooze has already begun...

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Glad that you understand the relationship between power and spl, you must also factor distance into that (most consumers mistakenly forget about that).

    I am sorry but we do not offer piano black on our towers. Give us a call or send an email to discuss finish options once you are able to convince the wife.

    thanks again!
    I just placed my order!

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Stumbled Across an Awesome Deal!

    Pogrer
    Did you get them suckers yet (towers) or did i miss it in another post?

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