Advice sought: Sierra 2-EX vs Revel M106

[relopez]

I'm a long time satisfied Sierra 1 owner (2011), but this is my first post. I'm looking for advice about an upgrade. Here's the situation:

I've used my Sierra 1's happily for years in my living room AV system, but recently bought some much larger Sonus Faber Sonetto III towers for that room and moved the Sierras into a small study, dedicated to audio. When I installed the Sonus Fabers in my living room I immediately noticed a much wider soundstage, particularly with large scale orchestral music. The sound really opens up and I'm able to locate instruments very well. My wife even made an unsolicited comment to that effect and she doesn't care about audio at all.

In the small study I hear the same thing. To be fair, the Sierras sound amazing, especially after equalizing out low frequency room resonances. I just want a bigger soundstage. After reading a lot about this topic it seems that I'm looking for a speaker with wide horizontal dispersion and good off-axis frequency response. The Sierra 2-EX seems to measure particularly well in this regard, and I'm considering buying a pair. However, I've found some other speakers that also have this attribute, notably Revels including their M106 model.

I'm sure either speaker would be great, but has anyone here auditioned the Sierra 2-EXs against Revel M106s? If so, can you comment on the relative soundstage of the two models? If I'm off base in the measurements that produce the sound I want, I'd appreciate feedback and suggestions there as well.

If it matters the electronics I use in the study is a Bluenode 2i streamer => MiniDSP DDRC-22D Dirac processor => Topping D30 DAC => Emotiva Bas-X 150 amp.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for your help.

Rob

[goldark]

I'm a long time satisfied Sierra 1 owner (2011), but this is my first post. I'm looking for advice about an upgrade. Here's the situation:

I've used my Sierra 1's happily for years in my living room AV system, but recently bought some much larger Sonus Faber Sonetto III towers for that room and moved the Sierras into a small study, dedicated to audio. When I installed the Sonus Fabers in my living room I immediately noticed a much wider soundstage, particularly with large scale orchestral music. The sound really opens up and I'm able to locate instruments very well. My wife even made an unsolicited comment to that effect and she doesn't care about audio at all.

In the small study I hear the same thing. To be fair, the Sierras sound amazing, especially after equalizing out low frequency room resonances. I just want a bigger soundstage. After reading a lot about this topic it seems that I'm looking for a speaker with wide horizontal dispersion and good off-axis frequency response. The Sierra 2-EX seems to measure particularly well in this regard, and I'm considering buying a pair. However, I've found some other speakers that also have this attribute, notably Revels including their M106 model.

I'm sure either speaker would be great, but has anyone here auditioned the Sierra 2-EXs against Revel M106s? If so, can you comment on the relative soundstage of the two models? If I'm off base in the measurements that produce the sound I want, I'd appreciate feedback and suggestions there as well.

If it matters the electronics I use in the study is a Bluenode 2i streamer => MiniDSP DDRC-22D Dirac processor => Topping D30 DAC => Emotiva Bas-X 150 amp.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks in advance for your help.

Rob

It's not the M106, but I own the floorstanding version, the Revel F206 and the Sierra 2-EX. I wrote up my impressions here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...evel-f206.html

In short, the S2-EX has a wider soundstage but the Revel has a taller one. To my ears, the Ascend comes off as the higher fidelity speaker, but the Revel does sound great in its own right. Hope this helps.

[relopez]

It's not the M106, but I own the floorstanding version, the Revel F206 and the Sierra 2-EX. I wrote up my impressions here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...evel-f206.html

In short, the S2-EX has a wider soundstage but the Revel has a taller one. To my ears, the Ascend comes off as the higher fidelity speaker, but the Revel does sound great in its own right. Hope this helps.

Thank you for the link. I think I'd prefer a wider rather than taller soundstage, and your comparison of the tweeters between the two speakers (even after fixing the EQ issue) definitely seems to favor the Sierras. That is really useful information, thanks.

FWIW, on that same site I ran across an interesting thread containing a blind test between a Sierra 2EX and a Kef R3 that also strongly favored the Sierras: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-informal.html.

[Blutarsky]

Maybe try adjusting your speaker placement, could also use a wedge to tilt them back little?

[SunByrne]

FWIW, on that same site I ran across an interesting thread containing a blind test between a Sierra 2EX and a Kef R3 that also strongly favored the Sierras: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-sp...-informal.html.

Not a surprise. Every KEF I've ever heard is too bright. Like, generally solid, capable speakers at their price point, but have never been my first choice because of the brightness.

As noted in that thread, I'd be interested to see the S2-EX vs. the S400 in a blind test. They both measure insanely well, amazingly similar in size (both dimensions and weight), and not too far off in price with the S400s being just a bit pricier. Wouldn't hurt to throw the M106s in there, either, if you don't care about bass extension.

I've only heard Revels once, and they were really good. Revel makes good stuff and it's hard to go wrong with them in general; very neutral speakers. However, I doubt the M106 is worth $2k when you can upgrade your S1s to S2-EXs for about half that.

It also matters a lot whether you're using a sub. The bass extension on the Revels isn't very good (in fact, it's kind of surprisingly bad for ported 6.5" woofers—I strongly suspect a compromise to maintain neutrality), so if you don't have a sub, then I'd say it's a no-brainer for the S2-EX.

[relopez]

Thanks, I've heard good things about the S400s as well. Good point about the cost, if you're willing to do the Sierra upgrade. I've been a little hesitant about that (factory-assembled speaker testing before shipment, etc.) but maybe I should try that first. If I don't like the sound I could always sell the Sierras and probably wouldn't be out that much money. Completely agree about the KEFs. I've kind of ruled out that brand for the same reason: ones I've heard have been bright (think it's the house sound), and I can't stand bright speakers over the long term.

I wasn't aware that the M106 bass extension was much poorer than the Sierras, but of course it's easy to tell that the Sierras go very deep for such small speakers. In my small room I get usable bass down below 40 Hz, which is insane. I'd prefer not to have to add a subwoofer, but if it came down to it I'd consider one. Of course that destroys all cost arguments: M106 + subwoofer is much more expensive than Sierra 2EX, especially if you do the upgrade.

One last observation. It seems like the Revel design philosophy uses sophisticated techniques like waveguides and curved enclosures to improve the sound, while the Sierras have a more basic design, but with higher quality drivers. Not sure which is better, but they do seem very different.

Thanks again for the advice. Lots to think about.

[Jaybeez]

Around the time I picked up my Sierra 2s, I listened to many of the same songs I demo'd at Ascend on a set of Revel Ultima Gems (1st iteration). I couldn't find anything in the Gems that I thought was better than the Sierras, though maybe a tiny bit more bass. I listened to the EXs a month or so ago in the shop, and used the same songs I used to demo the 2s originally. You can hear the increased bass in the EXs, so going head to head, they would beat the Gems easily in terms of low, mid and high end and overall soundstage. Pretty sure the Gems were (and probably still are) some of the best bookies Harman ever made.

[SunByrne]

Good point about the cost, if you're willing to do the Sierra upgrade. I've been a little hesitant about that (factory-assembled speaker testing before shipment, etc.) but maybe I should try that first.

It's actually not hard at all. I've done it several times now. S1->S1 NrT (twice). S1 NrT -> S2. S2 -> S2-EX. Dave did a great job designing the Sierras so that they'd be easy to upgrade, and supplies excellent instructions, too. It's pretty foolproof.

I wasn't aware that the M106 bass extension was much poorer than the Sierras,

Yeah, the M106 specs say -3dB at 59Hz. As a bass player... well, that's just not good enough. I have an awesome pair of Mini Philharmonitors that do about 45Hz, and that's still not good enough. The S2-EXs are good enough, though.

Of course that destroys all cost arguments: M106 + subwoofer is much more expensive than Sierra 2EX, especially if you do the upgrade.

Yep. This is kind of one of the things that make the S400 so intriguing is that they have similar bass specs, and the reviews I've read said they sound like the specs are accurate. The S400 does it via a passive radiator, Dave does it with an expensive kick-ass woofer and a bamboo cabinet. Neither of those are the cheap way to go.

One last observation. It seems like the Revel design philosophy uses sophisticated techniques like waveguides and curved enclosures to improve the sound, while the Sierras have a more basic design, but with higher quality drivers. Not sure which is better, but they do seem very different.

Yep. There's more than one way to skin a cat. I'd be willing to bet that Dave's margin is much lower than Revel's, and if you wanted to get sub-40Hz out of a Revel bookshelf, well, that'd cost no small amount extra.

For me, what matters most in the end is not so much how the designer got there, but how it performs per dollar spent. That's why I own Philharmonic and Ascend, and why I am intrigued by the S400.

[relopez]

Thanks again for all the advice. The S400 sounds pretty intriguing, but I've decided to go with the Sierra 2-EX instead. I just bought the upgrade kit.