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Thread: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

  1. #1
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    Default Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    Hello,

    After a lot of research and advice on various forums I am looking to purchase some Ascend speakers to upgrade our living room “system” which consists of a small Polk soundbar.

    We are remodeling and our space options are limited to where the TV is now. I have some recent hearing loss and my first pair of hearing aids. Usage is primarily for TV and movies. Very little music. My main goal is clear dialogue at lower volumes. I have particular trouble with women and children’s voices. Headphones are ok occasionally but I want to be present in the room with others while watching. After all that’s what hearing aids are for I guess.

    I am going to purchase an AVR, likely a Yamaha (RX-A780, RX-V685 or TSR-7850).
    Budget is pretty low by Audiophile standards so I am not looking for miracles or overkill.
    I plan to build in pieces. AVR, center, and L/R first. Then a sub later and then some surrounds.

    I have been trying to keep the basic rules in mind when trying to decide on the specific speakers and the positioning. Matched front speakers, center design drawbacks vs matching bookshelf as center, tweeter height aligned with ear height, tweeters all at same height, etc. Trying to get everything perfect seems almost impossible so I have to focus on “rules” that will help my specific needs the most.

    I attached images with different options for speakers and the placement. I can’t afford to go up to the Sierra’s and above. I am looking at the HTM200’s and trying to decide between one of those and the CMT-340 at Center. I think the CMT-340 L/R may be overkill and are much deeper than the 200’s which likely will need to be mounted on the wall. The 170’s are a little wide and boxy to fit on the side of the TV. They are also a little deep.

    Any advice and experiences would be greatly appreciated. Again my main focus is clear dialogue at lower volumes. Movie affects are fun as a bonus but we don’t need to shake the house or damage my hearing any more than it is. (too much rock-n-roll I guess)

    option a 200 tweeter up.pngoption b 200 tweeter down.pngoption c 200 horizontal tweeter down.pngoption d 340 center vetical 200.png

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    Quote Originally Posted by edm14 View Post
    I have some recent hearing loss and my first pair of hearing aids. Usage is primarily for TV and movies. Very little music. My main goal is clear dialogue at lower volumes.
    The center channel carries the vast majority of dialog. If what you want is clearer, crisper dialog I recommend that you spend more money on the center speaker than on the L/R pair. And a center designed as a center is probably your best bet.

    Then, you'll probably want an AVR that does reasonably good room calibration. Systems like YPAO (Yamaha) and Audyssey for (Denon, etc.). One of the more useful tools these systems provide is a "dynamic volume" control that acts like a continuously variable "loudness compensation" when you turn it on. That is, it applies the Robinson-Dadson curves to the volume level you set so that what you hear is pretty flat no matter where you set the master volume level. This will help your goal of "clear dialog at lower volumes". That said, purists and audiophiles tend to really hate things like dynamic volume. But it's not made for them, it is made for people like you.

    On top of that, you should look to be sure that your AVR will let you set the center channel relative levels (relative to your L/R pair for example) independently after room calibration. So if the dialog levels aren't sufficient for you, you can turn them up a few dB. This is surprisingly effective for many people, without effecting the overall balance too much for the other people watching the movie.

    I know you can get all this from the Denons (the one in my HT room has them all). Don't know about Yamaha since I've never owned one. But I'm sure all the AVR brands have more or less the same features at the same price points. Because they have to if they want to survive in the marketplace.

    First step though is a good center channel speaker. You might want to give a good look at the Ascend Acoustics Duo. Probably more than you want to spend, but if you want cleaner crisper dialog, the Duo punches way above it's weight class. I know I'm not letting mine go any time soon. My wife likes it too much.
    "If it sounds good, it is good." -- Duke Ellington

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    +1 for what Bruce posted
    As I recall, Yamaha has similar features as noted above. I used to use one about 5 years ago

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
    Then, you'll probably want an AVR that does reasonably good room calibration. Systems like YPAO (Yamaha) and Audyssey for (Denon, etc.). One of the more useful tools these systems provide is a "dynamic volume" control that acts like a continuously variable "loudness compensation" when you turn it on.
    Thanks Bruce. The YAMAHA AVR's I'm looking at do have the room correction and Dynamic Volume control. That should help a bit.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post

    First step though is a good center channel speaker. You might want to give a good look at the Ascend Acoustics Duo. Probably more than you want to spend, but if you want cleaner crisper dialog, the Duo punches way above it's weight class. I know I'm not letting mine go any time soon. My wife likes it too much.

    That center is very impressive and I'm sure it sounds great. It' a bit above my budget to get started with. I think my center speaker budget may tap out around $300-$400. Maybe I can come across something used.
    Unless I start with something like the 200's and upgrade to a better center later. What are your thoughts on the 340 center?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    +1 for what Bruce posted
    As I recall, Yamaha has similar features as noted above. I used to use one about 5 years ago
    Yes the long feature list is one of the reasons I settled on Yamaha. They have good reviews for dialogue and also have built in bluetooth transmitters.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    Quote Originally Posted by edm14 View Post
    That center is very impressive and I'm sure it sounds great. It' a bit above my budget to get started with. I think my center speaker budget may tap out around $300-$400. Maybe I can come across something used.
    Unless I start with something like the 200's and upgrade to a better center later. What are your thoughts on the 340 center?
    The 340, IMO, is the best bang for the buck in the Ascend lineup, as a center and mains.
    -curtis

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    Default Re: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    The 340, IMO, is the best bang for the buck in the Ascend lineup, as a center and mains.
    Thank you Curtis, I have heard good things about the 340's. Do you think the 340 center with the 200's as mains would be a good start? Later I could upgrade the mains and move the 200's to surround duty. Image "Option D" shows that setup option in my space.

    The 340's are a little deep which is fine at center but with my layout they may stick out a bit on the side of the TV. How does the different tweeter positioning affect the performance of the 200 (offset) vs the 340 (centered)? I see so many warnings against the MTM design with the tweeter not being offset.

    Ed

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    Default Re: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    Quote Originally Posted by edm14 View Post
    Thank you Curtis, I have heard good things about the 340's. Do you think the 340 center with the 200's as mains would be a good start? Later I could upgrade the mains and move the 200's to surround duty. Image "Option D" shows that setup option in my space.

    The 340's are a little deep which is fine at center but with my layout they may stick out a bit on the side of the TV. How does the different tweeter positioning affect the performance of the 200 (offset) vs the 340 (centered)? I see so many warnings against the MTM design with the tweeter not being offset.

    Ed
    IMO, Just do all 200’s.

    While the advice on centers is all valid, the engineering/design that Ascend puts into everything results is excellent performance from all of them.

    If the 200 is not cutting it for you, it can be returned. You’ll just be out shipping.

    Yes, MTMs get a bad rap, but the work that Ascend puts in minimizes disadvantages.
    -curtis

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Speakers for first HT - Focus on dialogue at lower volume

    I see you plan on a sub later. That said, the 200s do lack bass, and you will definitely need a sub.

    As far as setup is concerned, I lean towards option A.

    Is that a working fireplace?
    -curtis

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