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Thread: Blown Tweeter

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    I have the MRX7720 also.

    I'm wondering if the difference between the Denon/Nad (-22) and the Anthem (-32) is where each set the reference point (as in my previous post, I think Anthem uses -10; others may be at 0). That could explain the difference.

    Not sure what it is with Genesis, but a lot of people seem to have their gains set high. I'm still tinkering with it -- different mic positions and subwoofer gains (both have an impact on results).
    I’m a relatively new Anthem AVM 60 owner. Genesis also set my speakers and sub between +8 and +10.
    -curtis

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    It seems to be a quirk that some experience with Genesis as tends to set the speaker gains hot. I've not run the most recent release so do not know if this is still the case.

    I've had results ranging from ~ +7db to -5db on front speakers with the second release. Mic positioning and/or subwoofer gain (on sub amp) do have an impact on the measurements, obviously.

    Currently loaded are -5 db FL, -6 db C, FR, Sub, SL, -3 dB SR, -4 db F&R heights. Room gain is 2.75 db.

    As I understand Genesis, I believe you can adjust the gains it sets (up or down) without impacting the eq/integration.

    There is a relatively new thread on AVS discussing Genesis - link below.
    https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...-thread-6.html

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    Since the trims and volume are all digitally handled in the same receiver, any reasonable implementation would effectively add the per speaker trim to the volume setting. This could be done in multiple stages internally for things like loudness compensation OR DRC to behave correctly, but this is often done with at least 24-bit internal processing (or float or fixed precision decimal) with enough headroom not to clip.

    So in the end, a volume level of -25 with +10dB trim should be more or less the same signal going to your speaker as -15 with 0dB trim.

    In the Denon receivers, the max volume setting is reduced by your highest speaker trim for exactly this reason. Trim levels are simply set so that 0dB on the receiver achieves 105dB peaks to meet reference levels. This makes the volume settings an absolute instead of just an arbitrary relative number. Ideally this is the purpose that trim is serving without any (substantially) measurable drawbacks. And certainly should NEVER lead to digital signal clipping. Ever.

    So unless Anthem is doing their internal processing poorly, I think we're overly concerned about trim levels in this thread. Put another way: the trim level shouldn't really matter.

    Of course, buggy software could cause a clipping issue. Or, even if not explicitly a trim-related bug, any other software bug in the digital processing could cause clipping. Or perhaps a bad analog part in the receiver. The trim levels may be a red herring, even if the Anthem is at fault. And possible just this 1 unit from Anthem is bad and not necessarily their software on a whole.

    Either way though, really stinks to be out a tweeter and I wouldn't trust that amp/brand again.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    I have a new tweeter on the way.
    I have not decided if I will give the Anthem another try or write it off as useless.
    I may try using it without room correction for a while.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    Glad to hear you've got a new tweeter on the way.
    I listen to music with ARC off as I find it sounds better than with ARC on. YMMV. But, I'd give that a try before giving up on the Anthem. Really are quite good for music (and movies). If you do use room correction and/or rerun Genesis and the trims are high, you can always lower them equal amounts. It's my understanding from a thread on AVS, according to Anthem, it doesn't impact the EQ.

    Alternately, you can download ARC2 and run that room correction software. The interface and tweakability isn't as good as Genesis, but it does an excellent job of integrating subs/eq --- without the funky trim gains. Can have both installed on the same machine. ARC2 is Windows only if you are a MAC user.
    Last edited by racrawford65; 08-14-2019 at 05:25 PM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    I listen to music with ARC off as I find it sounds better than with ARC on. YMMV. But, I'd give that a try before giving up on the Anthem. Really are quite good for music (and movies). If you do use room correction and/or rerun Genesis and the trims are high, you can always lower them equal amounts. It's my understanding from a thread on AVS, according to Anthem, it doesn't impact the EQ.

    Alternately, you can download ARC2 and run that room correction software. The interface and tweakability isn't as good as Genesis, but it does an excellent job of integrating subs/eq --- without the funky trim gains. Can have both installed on the same machine. ARC2 is Windows only if you are a MAC user.
    FWIW, I use ARC/Genesis and only EQ 300hz and below.
    -curtis

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    FWIW, I use ARC/Genesis and only EQ 300hz and below.
    Thanks, Curtis. FWIW, I'm somewhat similar. I've set up profiles with EQ at 5K, 1K, 500, and 250. As of now, I use the 5K EQ with video inputs (eg movies, streaming, TV) and have the 250 profile assigned to music inputs. I've set up two inputs for each music source - one with ARC and one without - and programmed my remote so I can switch between these. As mentioned previously, I find w/o ARC a bit better for music. To me, it seems the highs are better and overall a bit louder w/o ARC.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    Quote Originally Posted by racrawford65 View Post
    Thanks, Curtis. FWIW, I'm somewhat similar. I've set up profiles with EQ at 5K, 1K, 500, and 250. As of now, I use the 5K EQ with video inputs (eg movies, streaming, TV) and have the 250 profile assigned to music inputs. I've set up two inputs for each music source - one with ARC and one without - and programmed my remote so I can switch between these. As mentioned previously, I find w/o ARC a bit better for music. To me, it seems the highs are better and overall a bit louder w/o ARC.
    Do you have any idea why ARC would alter the high frequencies with a 250 hertz limit.
    I am a little apprehensive about using the anthem. I am 59 years old and this is my first blown speaker. I do not want to repeat this.
    It can get expensive to keep replacing Raal tweeters.
    I can see the Denon x-4000 going back into service.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    Quote Originally Posted by Hlam View Post
    Do you have any idea why ARC would alter the high frequencies with a 250 hertz limit.
    I am a little apprehensive about using the anthem. I am 59 years old and this is my first blown speaker. I do not want to repeat this.
    It can get expensive to keep replacing Raal tweeters.
    I can see the Denon x-4000 going back into service.
    Not sure why it is altering. Maybe related to which version of Genesis you are running? Or, perhaps, input is set to use a different speaker profile with higher EQ limit?

    Maybe post your Genesis/ARC report here (and/or on the AVS Genesis thread - several knowledgeable posters there who may be able to help. Link below)

    In the interim, as suggested above, may want to run ARC2 instead of Genesis. If not happy with results from ARC2, if it gives you peace of mind, go back to the Denon and try the Anthem / Genesis when the software is a bit more stable.

    https://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...thread-19.html

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Blown Tweeter

    I think I am missing the point. If Genesis rasies the level for all speakers by +9db, why would it make a difference in listening as if it didn't. Instead of listening at -40db you would listen as -49db.

    rcrawford, is it definite that Genesis is EQing above the cutoff frequency? (just did a quick scan of the referenced thread and it seems it is not correcting above the cutoff. It does seem the latest version is buggy though. I'm happy with my setup, so I will leave it alone).
    Last edited by curtis; 08-16-2019 at 12:32 PM.
    -curtis

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