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Thread: Parasound pairing?

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    I had an opportunity over the weekend to listen to a system powered by a pair of mono digital amps. They were Cherry Maraschino amps. They were driving a pair of Paradigm Persona F3 towers that retail for $10/pr. They use a beryllium tweeter & midrange, so not an apples to apples, but the beryllium tweeter should be very revealing. Perhaps not as revealing as the RAAL, I can't say. I could detect nothing that would indicate switching noise. The sound from those tiny cubes did not compute in my brain! Another guest and I both thought the sub was playing at first, but it was not. Those F3's can do some bass, and those digital cubes made them sing.

    I'd be interested to hear the verdict on pairing digital amps with the Sierra-2 or Tower w/RAAL.
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    I have an ICEpower based class D amp that I haven't used in a while, never connected to my Sierra-2's.

    Maybe I will dig it up when I have some time and connect it.
    -curtis

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    I have an ICEpower based class D amp that I haven't used in a while, never connected to my Sierra-2's.

    Maybe I will dig it up when I have some time and connect it.
    Do it!!
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    I had an opportunity over the weekend to listen to a system powered by a pair of mono digital amps. They were Cherry Maraschino amps. They were driving a pair of Paradigm Persona F3 towers that retail for $10/pr. They use a beryllium tweeter & midrange, so not an apples to apples, but the beryllium tweeter should be very revealing. Perhaps not as revealing as the RAAL, I can't say. I could detect nothing that would indicate switching noise. The sound from those tiny cubes did not compute in my brain! Another guest and I both thought the sub was playing at first, but it was not. Those F3's can do some bass, and those digital cubes made them sing.

    I'd be interested to hear the verdict on pairing digital amps with the Sierra-2 or Tower w/RAAL.
    I think that Dave had reservations with the RAAL ribbon tweeter specifically because it can extend much further than most other dome tweeters. It doesn't start to roll off (in the towers) until around 30 kHz. While we can't really hear above 20 kHz, many of us likely can't even hear much above 15 to 17 kHz, he seemed to be suggesting that it can introduce fatigue in longer listening sessions having those ultrasonics playing. I already have a slight bit of tinnitus, where I can't go much above -20 dB without getting ringing in the ears for the rest of the day. It took going with Ascends and the RAAL ribbon tweeter, for me to be able to play that loud without fatigue. My previous Axiom speakers would give me fatigue if I went past -35 to -30 dB. So for me, I'm sticking with class A/B amps to avoid this possible problem. Or at least making sure there is a generous return policy on any digital amp that I might get and really checking carefully to see if the problem comes up in listening sessions within the return widow.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    This is not a substitute for critical listening, BUT, here are 1KHz FFT measurements at 5W, 95W and 150W, out to 90 KHz:
    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-4#post-132243
    Last edited by jimb; 03-05-2019 at 10:59 AM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimb View Post
    This is not a substitute for critical listening, BUT, here are 1KHz FFT measurements at 5W, 95W and 150W, out to 90 KHz:
    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-4#post-132243
    Many receivers rolloff at 20 kHz, but still do have significant output at 30kHz:

    https://www.audioholics.com/av-recei...1/measurements


    Not all preamplifiers do though, like this one that goes past 90 kHz:

    https://www.stereophile.com/content/...r-measurements

    The Oppo disc player seems to also extend well past 20kHz to around 90 kHz:

    https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-203/


    So for example, if we use an Oppo as our source, connected to this Parasound preamp, with a digital amplifier, our Raal ribbon tweeters might be getting some of these ultrasonics, unless I'm missing something.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    Quote Originally Posted by N Boros View Post
    ...
    So for example, if we use an Oppo as our source, connected to this Parasound preamp, with a digital amplifier, our Raal ribbon tweeters might be getting some of these ultrasonics, unless I'm missing something.
    Two different issues. The data I referenced is about distortion in the power amp, not audio sources, and it WILL go to the speakers. Your point about high frequency source material making it to the speakers through the amp is determined by its frequency response, and we usually want that to be extended well above 20 KHz. From the review I cited, the NC400 is -3dB at about 70KHz.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    Quote Originally Posted by jimb View Post
    Two different issues. The data I referenced is about distortion in the power amp, not audio sources, and it WILL go to the speakers. Your point about high frequency source material making it to the speakers through the amp is determined by its frequency response, and we usually want that to be extended well above 20 KHz. From the review I cited, the NC400 is -3dB at about 70KHz.
    You are right. Since it was distortion at 90 kHz, it would go to the speakers, however you would be hard pressed to find a speaker that can reproduce 90 kHz. I'm not sure what would happen if you try to send something 90 kHz to a speaker, if that in and of itself would produce distortion lower down to where the speaker can reproduce it. At the other extreme I know if you send some subwoofers a 3 Hz signal, they might try to reproduce and potentially damage themselves, if the gain is high enough.

    In the signal chain that I mentioned above (Oppo source, Parasound preamp, most any amplifiers and Sierra towers with Raal ribbon tweeters), if the source is calling for above 20kHz, then you should be getting that out of the speakers. I wonder if this can introduce fatigue, if there is enough of it in a recording.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beave View Post
    Since you appear to be dealing with solid-state amps and not tubes, the idea of amps having a sound quality to themselves - such as 'warm' or 'bright' - is audio mythology.
    This is complete & utter bullshit.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Parasound pairing?

    Let's keep things on track in this thread in order to be helpful to the original poster without starting a flame war as is common on that "other" forum!

    I will agree here that amps sound different. When I replaced the onboard amps in my old Marantz AVR with a beefy ADCOM, there was a nice bump in performance. Mainly the dynamics and things staying "together" improved. After replacing the Marantz with a Parasound P5 for preamp duties I noticed another leap in performance. Swapping the pre had a bigger impact in my opinion. I just had the ADCOM upgraded with new higher quality components vs stock, as well as some redesigned circuitry. That has made a very noticeable improvement in the form of amazing control of the bass, giving it clean extension with solidity and impact. The mids sound richer and the highs very extended and smooth. I know the AVR could never approach that level of sound.

    2 local friends have had similar experiences with changing amps and have said each time there has been certain differences that they either liked, or made them regret the change.
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

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