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Thread: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

  1. #1
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    Sep 2013
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    Default Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Hi,
    I'm sitting 12 feet from my L/C/R and 7 feet from the rear. Using ati at527nc to feed my front towers (raal) and Sierra 2 for the back. All tweeter are pointing on the middle seat of a 3 seats couch. Sometimes movies soundtrack sound a little to strident in the mid/high frequency. When is set my Anthem d2v to dolby volume on cinema reference mode, the sound is much more smooth but have the impression that I'm missing the little punch in the chest from sub and lose some particular effects that I have with usually. I believe the receiver clip the dynamic from the soundtrack. I have room acoustics (GIK) on walls and ceiling all around. You have any recommendations for me to get the high level sound (80db reference) without the strident effect? Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Quote Originally Posted by joblain View Post
    You have any recommendations for me to get the high level sound (80db reference) without the strident effect?
    Listening in a small room (as in, a room in your house) is different than listening in an actual theater (large room). While I enjoy a theater at reference levels, I find that I can't get close to that in my listening room at home. The highest I ever go seems to be around -15 to -12 dB. If I go louder, it becomes strident and oppressive. Probably because of the rapid first reflections you get with small rooms (even treated small rooms).

    For context, I'm listening to S2s (L/C/R), S1s (surrounds), and a pair of Rythmik LVX12s, held together through a Denon X4000 with Audyssey. Audyssey does a fine job of alignment and peak/null management for me. And I'm not close to clipping even at reference levels. It's not the equipment, it's the room.
    "If it sounds good, it is good." -- Duke Ellington

  3. #3
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    St George UT & Glenwood Springs CO
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    Default Re: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Have you had your hearing checked? There is an phenomena called recruitment.
    http://www.nchearingloss.org/recruit.htm
    B.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Exactly Bruce, - 12 or sometime - 10 is the maximum I can tolerate.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Quote Originally Posted by joblain View Post
    ... but have the impression that I'm missing the little punch in the chest from sub and lose some particular effects that I have...
    Have you tried mounting a woofer on your chest? In college, a few of us threatened to do that to an underclassman in our dorm who liked to play his sound system LOUD, with doors and windows open, WHILE WEARING HEADPHONES, because he "could feel the bass better that way".

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Quote Originally Posted by joblain View Post
    Hi,
    I'm sitting 12 feet from my L/C/R and 7 feet from the rear. Using ati at527nc to feed my front towers (raal) and Sierra 2 for the back. All tweeter are pointing on the middle seat of a 3 seats couch. Sometimes movies soundtrack sound a little to strident in the mid/high frequency. When is set my Anthem d2v to dolby volume on cinema reference mode, the sound is much more smooth but have the impression that I'm missing the little punch in the chest from sub and lose some particular effects that I have with usually. I believe the receiver clip the dynamic from the soundtrack. I have room acoustics (GIK) on walls and ceiling all around. You have any recommendations for me to get the high level sound (80db reference) without the strident effect? Thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by joblain View Post
    Exactly Bruce, - 12 or sometime - 10 is the maximum I can tolerate.
    Hi Joblain,

    It is important to understand what "reference" volume is, how loud it can be and how much power is required to get there. Reference volume is 85dB average from each speaker measured at the listening position. The peaks for movie soundtracks will be as high as +20dB. Reference volume calls for 105dB peaks from each speaker.

    To be able to cleanly play these peaks at your 11 foot listening distance requires 350 watts of power into each speaker. Your amplifier is capable of a max of 200 watts per channel so at the volume levels you are trying to reach, your amp is far exceeding its capability. Your amp uses class D amplification and your description of how the system sounds at these volume levels is precisely what happens to Class D amplification when it "clips", lots of high frequency distortion and compression.

    The reason it sound better at these extreme volume levels with Dolby Volume engaged is that Dolby Volume equalizes volume levels and reduces the peaks that are pushing your amp too hard (this is why you are losing some impact as you mentioned)

    My recommendation is to either try and rearrange your positioning so that you are sitting closer to the front L/C/R speakers, upgrade to a more powerful amplifier (you will need ~350 watts per channel for the fronts) or save your hearing and stick with slightly lower volume levels. 110dB spl is damaging to human hearing.

    Hope this helps!
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Quote Originally Posted by jimb View Post
    Have you tried mounting a woofer on your chest? In college, a few of us threatened to do that to an underclassman in our dorm who liked to play his sound system LOUD, with doors and windows open, WHILE WEARING HEADPHONES, because he "could feel the bass better that way".
    Wow haha! never thought of that but seems logic, bass frequencies are vibration so you got full range that way!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Hi Joblain,

    It is important to understand what "reference" volume is, how loud it can be and how much power is required to get there. Reference volume is 85dB average from each speaker measured at the listening position. The peaks for movie soundtracks will be as high as +20dB. Reference volume calls for 105dB peaks from each speaker.

    To be able to cleanly play these peaks at your 11 foot listening distance requires 350 watts of power into each speaker. Your amplifier is capable of a max of 200 watts per channel so at the volume levels you are trying to reach, your amp is far exceeding its capability. Your amp uses class D amplification and your description of how the system sounds at these volume levels is precisely what happens to Class D amplification when it "clips", lots of high frequency distortion and compression.

    The reason it sound better at these extreme volume levels with Dolby Volume engaged is that Dolby Volume equalizes volume levels and reduces the peaks that are pushing your amp too hard (this is why you are losing some impact as you mentioned)

    My recommendation is to either try and rearrange your positioning so that you are sitting closer to the front L/C/R speakers, upgrade to a more powerful amplifier (you will need ~350 watts per channel for the fronts) or save your hearing and stick with slightly lower volume levels. 110dB spl is damaging to human hearing.

    Hope this helps!
    Thanks Dave for responding.
    Are you sure that my amp can't push enough? Before buying my ati, i Checked over a couple of sites(ex:http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html) to calculate the max SPL I could get and all seem's to indicate with 200watts RMS it's enough. Also, when amp is clipping, it supposed to advertise me with a yellows led light on front but never got that warning.

  9. #9
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    May 2015
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    Houston, Texas
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    1,390

    Default Re: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Per ATI, they rate their amps up to clipping, which is 200 wpc in the case of their hypex ncore models.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Strident sound with movies soundtrack

    Quote Originally Posted by joblain View Post
    Thanks Dave for responding.
    Are you sure that my amp can't push enough? Before buying my ati, i Checked over a couple of sites(ex:http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html) to calculate the max SPL I could get and all seem's to indicate with 200watts RMS it's enough. Also, when amp is clipping, it supposed to advertise me with a yellows led light on front but never got that warning.
    Yes I am sure... Remember, Dolby Reference is 105dB peaks from EACH speaker. In that calculator, you must put in 1 speaker and since your room is treated, you must choose "Away" from walls. You will see you are nearly 3dB short, an additional 3dB of output requires double the amplifier power.

    I'd also recommend a class A/B amplifier...
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

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