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Thread: Need help with new towers?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    Default Re: Need help with new towers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimfinn2112 View Post
    Thanks Dave,
    I'll do it and get back to you. The guys who have responded to my thread all seem to think it's the room and reccomend treatments at the first reflection points. I was curious as to your take on that!
    Typically, when someone describes a "hollow" sound it is usually issues in the upper bass region, for which treating first reflection points would be rather pointless. In addition, since the speakers sound great at lower volumes and seem to get hollow sounding at louder volumes, that is a key indication of room modes.

    My hunch is that it is a combination of standing waves and speaker/sub integration. Also, when taking Audyssey measurements, it is critical to follow the recommended microphone placement guide. Many people run Audyssey with the mic just at the listening position and this most often ends up with poor results. All 12 positions should be used...



    Also let me know what settings you are using on the sub...

    Dina mentioned that you sent her an email and are getting better results with a few of her recommendations, that is a good start -- but best steps at this point is to follow my procedures so we can isolate the issue. Now, I am not saying we can fully fix the issue, there are no quick fixes to room modes if this is the issue, but we can certainly take steps to reduce their impact.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    7

    Default Re: Need help with new towers?

    The room is 21'6*14'7...on the right wall at 16'6 it L's into a small dining room which is 8*9. I've been listening to the live porcupine tree CD on an opportunity 203 and they sound pretty good. I don't think I've ever listened to music without some kind of bass or treble lol. The rug is 6*8 and not very thick at all. The floors are pergo or something like that. The back of the speakers are about a foot from the TV. I think I need to move the sub.
    Behind seat is about 11feet of open space.
    Again I appreciate the help!!

  3. #13
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    Mar 2017
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    Default Re: Need help with new towers?

    That's an oppo 203 lol

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    SoCal
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    Default Re: Need help with new towers?

    A hard surface floor like pergo plus only a small thin rug can lead to an overly-reflective room. I don't think acoustic panels are always needed, but in the case of this room, some more absorption might help.

    The space behind your listening position is probably a good thing (better than having a wall right behind your couch, in terms of acoustics).

    But as Dave has pointed out, you could be sitting in a null nonetheless. Try crouching a couple feet in front of the couch or sitting a couple feet behind it - does it sound better at those places? If so, you're sitting in a null.

    Or it could be simply the room is overly reflective. You could try bringing in a few blankets or comforters or sleeping bags and laying them on the rug to 'thicken' it up considerably and see if that helps the sound. If it does, you'll know a thicker/bigger rug will help.

    You could also try hanging said blankets or comforters or sleeping bags along the sidewalls and see what you think there - that approximates acoustic panels on the walls.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    Default Re: Need help with new towers?

    It's funny you say about the null of nothingness. When I move back a few feet from the listening position the bass of the speakers is definitely more prevalent. I think I was losing some of the low end, hence that hollowish sound. Thanks for your suggestions! If I pull the sub out of the corner and put it next to the couch, which way should it face. If understand it a bit, the bass goes everywhere?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    SoCal
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    Default Re: Need help with new towers?

    I'm guessing this problem is above the frequency range covered by the subwoofer, ie, as Dave said, it's upper bass missing that can lead to a hollow sound.

    The sub can face any direction, except for having the ports right up against a wall. But I'm not sure it's your sub location that is the problem.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    Default Re: Need help with new towers?

    Thanks Dave,
    I'll follow your instructions.
    I haven't messed with the sub to much. I'd say the settings are basically the same as out of the crate. It has a lot of different settings on it though.

    I'm also listening with no toe in. I read today about a thing with sound where the seat shouldn't be half way between the front and back wall and the side walls. I think I was sitting in that spot. Sound is crazy, but fascinating too!!

  8. #18
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    USA
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    Default Re: Need help with new towers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimfinn2112 View Post
    The room is 21'6*14'7...on the right wall at 16'6 it L's into a small dining room which is 8*9. I've been listening to the live porcupine tree CD on an opportunity 203 and they sound pretty good. I don't think I've ever listened to music without some kind of bass or treble lol. The rug is 6*8 and not very thick at all. The floors are pergo or something like that. The back of the speakers are about a foot from the TV. I think I need to move the sub.
    Behind seat is about 11feet of open space.
    Again I appreciate the help!!
    Based on the info you provided, your room is going to have a very pronounced null at ~60Hz at half the distance from the front wall, which is where you are seated. This is why you are getting much better sound a few feet back from your listening positioning.

    A good rule of thumb for speaker placement and listening position is what is termed the rule of thirds. Basically, you will want to divide your room into 3rds. Set your listening position 1/3rd distance from the back wall, and ideally - place the speakers 1/3rd away from the front wall.

    In addition, to optimize subwoofer placement, you should follow the procedure known as the "subwoofer crawl"... Do this procedure only after you optimize your listening position.

    https://www.audioholics.com/home-the...ofer-placement

    Since this is a 60Hz null, it is affecting both the speakers and the subwoofer.

    If you are unable to change your listening position or optimize subwoofer placement, you then might want to try using a higher crossover on the speakers (100Hz) to let the subwoofer handle much of the upper midbass and then turn the subwoofer volume up higher to a point where you are satisfied with the sound. It is important for you to understand that in a room like this, the bass and upper midbass are going to sound very different in different places in the room. This is not due to the speakers or your sub, it is your room acoustics.

    Once you fully optimize placement and sub location, you can then try running Audyssey following the recommended microphone placement guidelines.

    I don't think I've ever listened to music without some kind of bass or treble lol
    Not sure what you mean, do you mean bass and treble controls? If so, your receiver has this option but it is quite a bit more capable than just basic bass and treble knobs. Your receiver has a 9 band EQ built in where you can adjust various bass, mid, and treble frequencies to your liking.

    Also, keep in mind that you can simply turn the subwoofer level up higher (most consumers tend to use subs 10dB hotter) but it is really all to your personal preferences. If you find you need more bass, just turn the sub volume level higher...

    Hope this helps!
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    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

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