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Thread: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

  1. #1
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    Default Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    Hey all! hope all is well.

    Out of curiosity, has anyone ever noticed the ribbon on the RAAl tweeter move? On one of mine I can see it flexing and moving when being used.

    Appreciate any feedback!

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    I have noticed that as well, pretty wild to watch the foil ripple and twist!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    Quote Originally Posted by jpmc View Post
    Hey all! hope all is well.

    Out of curiosity, has anyone ever noticed the ribbon on the RAAl tweeter move? On one of mine I can see it flexing and moving when being used.

    Appreciate any feedback!

    Thanks!
    This is how soundwaves are produced -- no movement, no sound....
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    This is how soundwaves are produced -- no movement, no sound....
    Thanks David. That much I knew (for that matter most of us on this board know). I think being more specific might help. I believe a while back people spoke about RAAl showing a tightening procedure on the ribbon when it is replaced. I am sure there is a threshold as to how loose (or tight) these should be.

    Are there negative effects of having a ribbon looser than the recommended amount?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    Quote Originally Posted by jpmc View Post
    Thanks David. That much I knew (for that matter most of us on this board know). I think being more specific might help. I believe a while back people spoke about RAAl showing a tightening procedure on the ribbon when it is replaced. I am sure there is a threshold as to how loose (or tight) these should be.

    Are there negative effects of having a ribbon looser than the recommended amount?
    The tightening procedure you mention is only for RAAL 70-20's and that is when the ribbon diaphragm is replaced as the diaphragm replacement modules are not pre-tensioned at the factory because they first need to be installed into the housing. The ribbon in your Sierra-2 is entirely different and is set by the factory (RAAL). You will destroy your tweeter if you attempt to tighten the diaphragm as is done with RAAL 70-20 diaphragm replacements.

    Yes, there can be negative effects if the tension is too high -- the tension of the diaphragm needs to be loose enough to allow the diaphragm to move freely, as it is doing. However, the design of these ribbons is such that too much tension is not possible. Again, there is nothing wrong here -- the ribbons need to move and the movement correlates directly to what frequencies are being reproduced and at what volume. If you feel the ribbon is moving too much, lower the volume.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    The tightening procedure you mention is only for RAAL 70-20's and that is when the ribbon diaphragm is replaced as the diaphragm replacement modules are not pre-tensioned at the factory because they first need to be installed into the housing. The ribbon in your Sierra-2 is entirely different and is set by the factory (RAAL). You will destroy your tweeter if you attempt to tighten the diaphragm as is done with RAAL 70-20 diaphragm replacements.

    Yes, there can be negative effects if the tension is too high -- the tension of the diaphragm needs to be loose enough to allow the diaphragm to move freely, as it is doing. However, the design of these ribbons is such that too much tension is not possible. Again, there is nothing wrong here -- the ribbons need to move and the movement correlates directly to what frequencies are being reproduced and at what volume. If you feel the ribbon is moving too much, lower the volume.

    Dave. Does this apply to the Tower Ribbon as well? As a second question, do the ribbons ever need servicing? Say like ten years from now, will I need to?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    Quote Originally Posted by ematthews View Post
    Dave. Does this apply to the Tower Ribbon as well? As a second question, do the ribbons ever need servicing? Say like ten years from now, will I need to?
    This tightening procedure that was mentioned here is for ONLY when a person replaces the ribbon diaphragm module on the 70-20xr, which is what we use in our ribbon towers. All ribbon tweeters we ship are pre-tightened by RAAL and attempting this procedure on a ribbon tweeter received from us will destroy the ribbon and, obviously, this would not be covered under any form of warranty.

    To this date, in the many thousands of 70-20xr ribbons we have shipped in our towers, we have only had 2 that required servicing. One was due to being completely destroyed because the tower fell over and basically smashed the tweeter into 5 pieces and the other was due to an amplifier failure, which also took out every other component in the tower as well.

    In the extremely rare occasion that a 70-20 ribbon fails, we would do the servicing here as replacing the diaphragm module is not a simple task and requires soldering skills, the correct tools and the ability to properly test the tweeter after the procedure is completed.

    These ribbons do not require any type of servicing or maintenance whatsoever, regardless of their age...
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    Quote Originally Posted by jpmc View Post
    Hey all! hope all is well.

    Out of curiosity, has anyone ever noticed the ribbon on the RAAl tweeter move? On one of mine I can see it flexing and moving when being used.

    Appreciate any feedback!

    Thanks!
    I had a set of Sierra 2's a few years ago and the tweeters ripped in half...happened to 4 tweeters. I know of another sierra2 owner who had the same issue. If they are moving be ready for them to rip unless you start listening at lower volumes. I hear that the towers don't have the same issue as the sierra 2's.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    Quote Originally Posted by Phastm3 View Post
    I had a set of Sierra 2's a few years ago and the tweeters ripped in half...happened to 4 tweeters. I know of another sierra2 owner who had the same issue. If they are moving be ready for them to rip unless you start listening at lower volumes. I hear that the towers don't have the same issue as the sierra 2's.
    This is concerning to read. I just had a ribbon tweeter replaced by Dave.

    I can't really say I crank the speakers way to high. I can also tell when a speaker is being pushed to strong.

    I sent in my tweeter to get replaced because a tear had formed, Dave told me it was not covered under warranty. Dave sent me pictures where he concludes that some type of debris had flown by the ribbon and torn the ribbon. I will admit it was a bit disheartened to hear this and not take a different approach.

    I could've argued that there was a possibility this was during assembly or manufacturing of the tweeter itself, but I did not want to start this. I simply agreed to replaced the tweeter and cabinet (since I scratched the cabinet as I attempted to replace the tweeter by a screw that slipped).

    I have always loved the way these speakers sound, for that I am a fan of. I can say that this previous experience has left a bitter sweet taste. For one I think as a customer I should've had the benefit of the doubt.

    Dave did an outstanding job at replacing the cabinet.

    I know that Dave seems like a pretty cool guy, but I have lost a bit of pride in saying I own these speakers after this previous tweeter replacement.

    This is also the second instance I hear of a scenario like yours this past week.
    Last edited by jpmc; 06-30-2018 at 03:42 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Sierra 2 Ribbon Flexing

    Quote Originally Posted by Phastm3 View Post
    I had a set of Sierra 2's a few years ago and the tweeters ripped in half...happened to 4 tweeters. I know of another sierra2 owner who had the same issue. If they are moving be ready for them to rip unless you start listening at lower volumes. I hear that the towers don't have the same issue as the sierra 2's.
    As I have stated many times, ribbon tweeters can be sensitive to amplifier clipping, the distortion of which causes transverse waves that will cause the diaphragm to vibrate in a direction against the proper movement of the ribbon. when this happens, the ribbon actually fights against itself. This is equally damaging to dome tweeters as well (really any tweeter) - -the difference is that in a dome, the transverse waves cause excessive heat in the voice coil which eventually leads to the voice coil becoming burned. The difference is that one will "see" this damage to a ribbon tweeter and generally assume something isn't right with the ribbon, while with other tweeters, the damage is internal and can't be seen - it just eventually stops and the average consumer does not know what happened.

    I remember your tweeters, this was 4 1/2 years ago and the diaphragms were basically disintegrated.
    This occurred because you were listening at 100dB+ at approx. 9 feet distance from a Yamaha receiver rated at 100 watts into 2-channels. You were running all 5 channels at the same time which dramatically reduces that output power capability of the receiver (likely down to about a max of 60-70 watts all channels driven) Simple math tells us that with speakers rated at 86dB sensitivity, to reach 100dB (extremely loud), at your listening distance required more power than you receiver was capable of, thus you were clipping your receiver.

    We replaced the tweeters for you and then you upgraded to a 300watt per channel amplifier. You melted these tweeters only a week later... I explained to you that at the listening distance and volume levels you were trying to achieve, these were absolutely NOT the right speakers for you, we took the speakers back from you after the return period had expired.


    Quote Originally Posted by jpmc View Post
    This is concerning to read. I just had a ribbon tweeter replaced by Dave.

    I can't really say I crank the speakers way to high. I can also tell when a speaker is being pushed to strong.

    I sent in my tweeter to get replaced because a tear had formed, Dave told me it was not covered under warranty. Dave sent me pictures where he concludes that some type of debris had flown by the ribbon and torn the ribbon. I will admit it was a bit disheartened to hear this and not take a different approach.

    I could've argued that there was a possibility this was during assembly or manufacturing of the tweeter itself, but I did not want to start this. I simply agreed to replaced the tweeter and cabinet (since I scratched the cabinet as I attempted to replace the tweeter by a screw that slipped).

    I have always loved the way these speakers sound, for that I am a fan of. I can say that this previous experience has left a bitter sweet taste. For one I don't think as a customer I should've had the benefit of the doubt.

    Dave did an outstanding job at replacing the cabinet.

    I know that Dave seems like a pretty cool guy, but I have lost a bit of pride in saying I own these speakers after this previous tweeter replacement.

    This is also the second instance I hear of a scenario like yours this past week.
    Your situation was entirely different and not related to the above. Your tweeter had a small hole in it, a puncture, and I sent you pics of precisely what caused the damage, we found debris inside the tweeter. You have been running your pair of sierra-2 without issue for 2 years now (other than (2) damaged cabinets you requested that we replace for you due to damage)

    We have been there for you every step of the way, and will continue to do so.
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    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

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