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Thread: 120 HZ crossover?

  1. #11
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by kinggimp82 View Post
    Would you suggest I move the speakers forward or back? How far would you suggest moving them?
    This depends, there are really a lot of variables at play. If you move them ~ 12" closer to you, you will lower this dip into the range where you cross to the sub which will help a lot. If you move them ~ closer to the wall such that the back of the speakers is ~8" from the wall, you will raise the frequency of the dip above 200Hz such that Audyssey will do a much better job of correcting for it.

    My recommendation is to experiment with both options and report back. There are also side wall and floor bounce reflections to deal with so always best to try different positioning options.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  2. #12
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    This depends, there are really a lot of variables at play. If you move them ~ 12" closer to you, you will lower this dip into the range where you cross to the sub which will help a lot. If you move them ~ closer to the wall such that the back of the speakers is ~8" from the wall, you will raise the frequency of the dip above 200Hz such that Audyssey will do a much better job of correcting for it.

    My recommendation is to experiment with both options and report back. There are also side wall and floor bounce reflections to deal with so always best to try different positioning options.
    Today I spent some time taking measurements with the speakers in two separate positions. First I measured with the speakers 18 inches from the wall with the crossover set to 80hz. In this first position when changing the crossover to 120hz or 150hz the measurements did not change. Here are the measurements for that first position.

    80hz - 80.5
    90hz - 79.5
    100hz - 77
    120hz - 63.5
    150hz - 66.5
    200hz - 74.5

    Then I moved the speakers so there are 8 inches from the wall with the crossover set to 80. In this position 120hz increased slightly and 150hz dropped significantly lower yet. Here are those measurements.

    80hz - 80.5
    90hz - 79.5
    100hz - 80
    120hz - 66.5
    150hz - 53
    200hz - 74.5

    Then in the second position I tried the crossover at 120hz. When I did this the reading jumped from 66.5 to 72.5 at 120hz. Then I increased the crossover to 150hz. This put 120hz at 72.5 and 150hz at 71.5. Without increasing the crossover to 150hz there is still the dip at 150hz. All of these measurements were taken with the receiver set to stereo. When I switched the mode to all channel stereo with the fronts center and surrounds playing together I could crossover at 120hz and could get 150hz to read 67.5. For reference I have the surrounds and center set with a crossover of 80hz.

    After all of that I have been listening to music in stereo with the crossover set to 150hz. So far it seems good. I will leave it this way for a while to see how I like it and if i notice any localization coming from the sub.
    Last edited by kinggimp82; 04-18-2018 at 06:24 PM.
    Andrew
    -------------------------

    TV: Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST30 55-Inch 1080p 3D Plasma
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR706, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2, Blu Ray: Sony BDP-N460
    Fronts/Center/Surrounds: Sierra Towers Nrt, Sierra-1, HTM-200
    Sub: HSU VTF-3 MK-4

  3. #13
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by kinggimp82 View Post
    Today I spent some time taking measurements with the speakers in two separate positions. First I measured with the speakers 18 inches from the wall with the crossover set to 80hz. In this first position when changing the crossover to 120hz or 150hz the measurements did not change. Here are the measurements for that first position.

    80hz - 80.5
    90hz - 79.5
    100hz - 77
    120hz - 63.5
    150hz - 66.5
    200hz - 74.5

    Then I moved the speakers so there are 8 inches from the wall with the crossover set to 80. In this position 120hz increased slightly and 150hz dropped significantly lower yet. Here are those measurements.

    80hz - 80.5
    90hz - 79.5
    100hz - 80
    120hz - 66.5
    150hz - 53
    200hz - 74.5

    Then in the second position I tried the crossover at 120hz. When I did this the reading jumped from 66.5 to 72.5 at 120hz. Then I increased the crossover to 150hz. This put 120hz at 72.5 and 150hz at 71.5. Without increasing the crossover to 150hz there is still the dip at 150hz. All of these measurements were taken with the receiver set to stereo. When I switched the mode to all channel stereo with the fronts center and surrounds playing together I could crossover at 120hz and could get 150hz to read 67.5. For reference I have the surrounds and center set with a crossover of 80hz.

    After all of that I have been listening to music in stereo with the crossover set to 150hz. So far it seems good. I will leave it this way for a while to see how I like it and if i notice any localization coming from the sub.
    Please try taking the same measurements with the speakers running full range with Audyssey turned off and no subwoofer.

    Also, please describe how you are taking these measurements... What equipment, mic and mic placement details.

    thanks!
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  4. #14
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Please try taking the same measurements with the speakers running full range with Audyssey turned off and no subwoofer.

    Also, please describe how you are taking these measurements... What equipment, mic and mic placement details.

    thanks!
    I will take the measurements again following your suggestions.

    I'm using a radio shack digital spl meter set to c weighting and slow. It is placed at my main listening position 10 feet away centered between the speakers. Im entering the measurements into a spreadsheet and using the corrections table for the meter to correct the raw data.
    Andrew
    -------------------------

    TV: Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST30 55-Inch 1080p 3D Plasma
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR706, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2, Blu Ray: Sony BDP-N460
    Fronts/Center/Surrounds: Sierra Towers Nrt, Sierra-1, HTM-200
    Sub: HSU VTF-3 MK-4

  5. #15
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by kinggimp82 View Post
    I will take the measurements again following your suggestions.

    I'm using a radio shack digital spl meter set to c weighting and slow. It is placed at my main listening position 10 feet away centered between the speakers. Im entering the measurements into a spreadsheet and using the corrections table for the meter to correct the raw data.
    Sounds good so far... If you don't mind -- post a few pics of the front of the room and the spl meter placement. Also, keep in mind that those digital RS spl meters can be quite inaccurate and using steady state sine wave test tones can often be problematic. (music is not steady state)

    You are much better off using room eq wizard paired with the Dayton Mic and a laptop for in-room measurements.

    I look forward to your measurement results with no sub, no EQ and running the towers full range. This will help isolate the issue as I suspect what you are experiencing is some cancellation between your sub and the towers...
    .
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  6. #16
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    Oregon
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    as someone who will be spending a lot of time dialing in a system shortly, I am learning a ton from this thread- thank you!

  7. #17
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    You are much better off using room eq wizard paired with the Dayton Mic and a laptop for in-room measurements.
    What is the model of that microphone? How much do they usually cost? Along with the laptop is that microphone the only thing I need to use REW?
    Andrew
    -------------------------

    TV: Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST30 55-Inch 1080p 3D Plasma
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR706, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2, Blu Ray: Sony BDP-N460
    Fronts/Center/Surrounds: Sierra Towers Nrt, Sierra-1, HTM-200
    Sub: HSU VTF-3 MK-4

  8. #18
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by kinggimp82 View Post
    What is the model of that microphone? How much do they usually cost? Along with the laptop is that microphone the only thing I need to use REW?
    Here's the mic: https://www.parts-express.com/minids...phone--230-332

    Or this one: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...phone--390-801

    I believe the laptop is the only other piece of hardware required along with the REW software.
    Last edited by Mag_Neato; 04-20-2018 at 09:30 AM.
    Ed

    * Sierra-2EX's W/V2 crossover upgrade
    * (2) Rythmik F12's
    * Parasound Halo P6
    * Audio by Van Alstine DVA-M225 Monoblock Amps
    * MiniDSP 2x4HD For Sub calibration
    *World's Best Cables Canare 4S11 speaker cables

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Here's the mic: https://www.parts-express.com/minids...phone--230-332

    Or this one: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...phone--390-801

    I believe the laptop is the only other piece of hardware required along with the REW software.
    Best option is the UMIK-1 since it is a USB mic and won't need an interface between the computer and the mic...
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  10. #20
    Join Date
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    Green Bay, WI
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    Default Re: 120 HZ crossover?

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Sounds good so far... If you don't mind -- post a few pics of the front of the room and the spl meter placement. Also, keep in mind that those digital RS spl meters can be quite inaccurate and using steady state sine wave test tones can often be problematic. (music is not steady state)

    You are much better off using room eq wizard paired with the Dayton Mic and a laptop for in-room measurements.

    I look forward to your measurement results with no sub, no EQ and running the towers full range. This will help isolate the issue as I suspect what you are experiencing is some cancellation between your sub and the towers...
    I took the measurements again with the speakers full range no sub and Audyssey off. Here is the results.

    8 inches from the wall
    80hz - 70.5
    90hz - 71.5
    100hz - 75
    120hz - 68.5
    150hz - 57.5
    200hz - 76.5

    16 inches from the wall
    80hz - 67.5
    90hz - 67.5
    100hz - 72
    120hz - 66.5
    150hz - 64.5
    200hz - 75.5

    I thought the measurements with the speaker 16 inches from the wall looked the most even so I decided to try measurements with the sub on with Audyssey still off and crossover set to 80hz. I took one set of measurements with the phase at 0. Then I took a second set of measurements with the phase at 180.

    16 inches from the wall phase 0
    80hz - 75.5
    90hz - 73.5
    100hz - 74
    120hz - 66.5
    150hz - 65.5
    200hz - 77.5

    16 inches from the wall phase 180
    80hz - 70.5
    90hz - 69.5
    100hz - 71
    120hz - 70.5
    150hz - 65.5
    200hz - 76.5
    Andrew
    -------------------------

    TV: Panasonic VIERA TC-P55ST30 55-Inch 1080p 3D Plasma
    Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR706, Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2, Blu Ray: Sony BDP-N460
    Fronts/Center/Surrounds: Sierra Towers Nrt, Sierra-1, HTM-200
    Sub: HSU VTF-3 MK-4

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