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Thread: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

  1. #31
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    Default Re: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

    One thing that I didn't see mentioned here, which I think that a 3-way bookshelf speaker could improve upon over say the Sierra 2 is an even wider off axis response that closely matches the on axis response. Don't get me wrong, I love my Sierra 2s and I don't think I would purchase a 3-way bookshelf version of that speaker just to improve the off axis performance. The Sierra 2 off axis response is very good. But, it is striking though when you compare the Sierra tower or Horizon with the Raal ribbon tweeter with the Sierra 2, in terms of how much the dedicated midrange helps in getting a very wide off axis response that is nearly identical to the on axis response, especially in the critical midrange.

    Now that the Sierra Luna LRC is getting close to production, I think that it will address this issue though. Looking at the off axis measurements of the Luna vs. the Sierra 2, we can see the improvement I was discussing in the Luna because of the smaller woofer and the narrower front baffle. However, the Luna LCR will have two woofers to get the efficiency back to the level of the Sierra 2s. The only thing that you seem to lose out on with the two smaller woofers compared to one large woofer is bass response, likely because the Sierra 2 cabinet volume is about double that of the Luna LCR.

    Maybe those looking for a three way Sierra bookshelf speaker could get what they are after just by going with the Sierra LCR coming soon. I'm not implying that the Sierra Luna LCR is a 3-way (or 2.5-way) design, but that you will likely get at least the one mentioned benefit of a dedicated midrange because of the smaller woofer and front baffle.
    Last edited by N Boros; 02-18-2019 at 02:07 PM.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

    What about a Sierra Horizon with just 1 side woofer? With that configuration it would look like alot of 3-way studio monitors.

    If you are talking purely about off-axis performance, the best one's I've seen are ones with very large waveguides like the Buchardt S400. The thing is I'm not sure if it's practical at all machining something like that into a bamboo enclosure.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

    Quote Originally Posted by Asliang View Post
    If you are talking purely about off-axis performance, the best one's I've seen are ones with very large waveguides like the Buchardt S400. The thing is I'm not sure if it's practical at all machining something like that into a bamboo enclosure.
    I don’t think that a waveguide is necessary for a Raal ribbon tweeter. Check out these measurements for the Philharmonic 3 way design.

    https://www.audioholics.com/bookshel...r-1/conclusion

    The Sierra towers have similar very wide dispersion, though it isn’t as easy to see as in the measurements in the link above. I think it is at least partly because of the dedicated midrange woofer, that is smaller than the woofer for bass extension down to and below 80Hz.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

    Quote Originally Posted by Asliang View Post
    What about a Sierra Horizon with just 1 side woofer? With that configuration it would look like alot of 3-way studio monitors.

    If you are talking purely about off-axis performance, the best one's I've seen are ones with very large waveguides like the Buchardt S400. The thing is I'm not sure if it's practical at all machining something like that into a bamboo enclosure.

    Is the S400 actually better than the RAAL in the Sierra-2 when it comes to horizontal dispersion? The graphs they use are fairly different than the graphs on Ascend's website, so it's a bit hard for me to compare. But I do know the horizontal dispersion of the RAALs is fantastic.

    Dave, what do you think about these graphs and how the horizontal dispersion compares to the Sierra-2?

    https://www.buchardtaudio.com/s400-detailed-description

  5. #35
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    Default Re: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

    To me, after a quick glance at the Buchardt site, it appears their speaker is a controlled-directivity design with relatively narrow dispersion in the upper mids through the highs (to decrease reflections in this region and thus increase the ratio of direct/reflected sound heard by a listener). This can give a very focused presentation more akin to headphones (precise imaging).

    The RAAL is quite the opposite - a very wide horizontal dispersion with subsequent high reflections off of sidewalls, giving a spacious presentation.

    It's not a question of which is "better," as they both do their thing well. But their design goals are quite different.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beave View Post
    To me, after a quick glance at the Buchardt site, it appears their speaker is a controlled-directivity design with relatively narrow dispersion in the upper mids through the highs (to decrease reflections in this region and thus increase the ratio of direct/reflected sound heard by a listener). This can give a very focused presentation more akin to headphones (precise imaging).

    The RAAL is quite the opposite - a very wide horizontal dispersion with subsequent high reflections off of sidewalls, giving a spacious presentation.

    It's not a question of which is "better," as they both do their thing well. But their design goals are quite different.
    Thanks, Beave!

  7. #37
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    Default Re: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beave View Post
    To me, after a quick glance at the Buchardt site, it appears their speaker is a controlled-directivity design with relatively narrow dispersion in the upper mids through the highs (to decrease reflections in this region and thus increase the ratio of direct/reflected sound heard by a listener). This can give a very focused presentation more akin to headphones (precise imaging).

    The RAAL is quite the opposite - a very wide horizontal dispersion with subsequent high reflections off of sidewalls, giving a spacious presentation.

    It's not a question of which is "better," as they both do their thing well. But their design goals are quite different.
    Exactly -- this is a controlled directivity speaker, narrow horizontal dispersion - quite the opposite of a RAAL based speaker. There are really 2 schools of thought - wide horizontal dispersion vs narrow horizontal dispersion. Both have pros and cons.

    One advantage of wide horizontal dispersion is that one can always and relatively easily treat side wall reflections and the in-room response of that speaker will be more like a narrow dispersion speaker (sacrifice spaciousness for more precise spatial queues) but one can not increase spaciousness of a narrow dispersion design...
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    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  8. #38
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    Default Re: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

    Quote Originally Posted by ed_bob View Post
    Is the S400 actually better than the RAAL in the Sierra-2 when it comes to horizontal dispersion? The graphs they use are fairly different than the graphs on Ascend's website, so it's a bit hard for me to compare. But I do know the horizontal dispersion of the RAALs is fantastic.

    Dave, what do you think about these graphs and how the horizontal dispersion compares to the Sierra-2?

    https://www.buchardtaudio.com/s400-detailed-description
    It depends on how you define "better"... The RAAL has significantly wider dispersion, this Buchardt is specifically designed for narrow dispersion, which can also be described as controlled directivity. Off-axis dispersion of this speaker is well behaved. Based on the manufacturer posted measurements, it is a well designed speaker but I question the use of a PR (passive radiator). PR's have poor transient reproduction and sacrifice efficiency in exchange for a smaller volume cabinet.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  9. #39
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    Default Re: 3 -way sierra bookshelf?

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    It depends on how you define "better"... The RAAL has significantly wider dispersion, this Buchardt is specifically designed for narrow dispersion, which can also be described as controlled directivity. Off-axis dispersion of this speaker is well behaved. Based on the manufacturer posted measurements, it is a well designed speaker but I question the use of a PR (passive radiator). PR's have poor transient reproduction and sacrifice efficiency in exchange for a smaller volume cabinet.
    Thanks for the clarification, Dave. I had assumed when they mentioned “excellent off axis response” that meant wide horizontal dispersion, when in fact, it means practically the opposite.

    Ya learn something new every day!

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