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Thread: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

  1. #1
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    Default Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    Hey everybody,

    Recently set up my first 5.1 HT, with my RAAL Towers, Horizon center, and Luna surrounds. I had a couple of Velodyne 10" subs from a previous stereo setup and threw them into the HT system. I have had them go beyond their ability, sounds a lot like clipping in a regular speaker.

    Room size = a recently opened up my basement where I took out doors and walls. Concrete floor with pad and carpet over all. The whole volume is about 6000 cubic feet. Emailed Enrico at Rythmik and he said I would need dual FV18 subs. That is more than I want to spend, and more area than I want to take up with subwoofers. Those things are HUGE!

    I can live with dual FV15HP's, but don't want to get them if I needed to upgrade later. What are your ideas? I have lurked and know some of you folks are really, really knowledgeable about this topic.

    Thanks in advance.

    randy

  2. #2
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    USA
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    Default Re: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    Quote Originally Posted by randyrlee2 View Post
    Hey everybody,

    Recently set up my first 5.1 HT, with my RAAL Towers, Horizon center, and Luna surrounds. I had a couple of Velodyne 10" subs from a previous stereo setup and threw them into the HT system. I have had them go beyond their ability, sounds a lot like clipping in a regular speaker.

    Room size = a recently opened up my basement where I took out doors and walls. Concrete floor with pad and carpet over all. The whole volume is about 6000 cubic feet. Emailed Enrico at Rythmik and he said I would need dual FV18 subs. That is more than I want to spend, and more area than I want to take up with subwoofers. Those things are HUGE!

    I can live with dual FV15HP's, but don't want to get them if I needed to upgrade later. What are your ideas? I have lurked and know some of you folks are really, really knowledgeable about this topic.

    Thanks in advance.

    randy
    Hi Randy,

    Dual FV15HP subs will be more than fine for your space. You definitely do not need dual 18's. Just this week I heard form a customer of ours who is using dual FV15's in a room that is close to 10K cu ft and he commented that they are perfect for the space....
    .
    .
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    300

    Default Re: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    To help further ease your concerns about the FV15HPs in your room size, Audioholics reviewed the subwoofer years ago and rated it Bassaholic Extreme, which means that it is suited to room larger than 5000 cubic feet.

    https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofe...ion-111016.pdf

    https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...ofer-room-size

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    Thank you Dave and N Boros. That's exactly what I needed to know.

    It's really nice to have a place to go like this forum where folks with the same stuff as me have experience and are willing to share.

    Again, thank you! randy

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Central NC
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    Default Re: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    Quote Originally Posted by randyrlee2 View Post
    Room size = a recently opened up my basement where I took out doors and walls. Concrete floor with pad and carpet over all. The whole volume is about 6000 cubic feet. Emailed Enrico at Rythmik and he said I would need dual FV18 subs. That is more than I want to spend, and more area than I want to take up with subwoofers. Those things are HUGE! I can live with dual FV15HP's, but don't want to get them if I needed to upgrade later. What are your ideas?
    Enrico is a good guy, knowledgeable and honest AFAIK. But I suspect he's giving you the worst case scenario -- that is, that you want to produce reference audio by the book, which means you need sufficient power at 20 Hz to get to around 115-130 dB (depending on which of several theories you believe) because of the Robinson-Dadson equal loudness contours. The power required to do this goes up exponentially with frequency; pressurizing 6k cuft of air at 20 Hz is... difficult. Thus his recommendation of the FV18s.

    But... who actually listens at reference levels in a house? Granted, there are people who do. But are you one of those people?

    I personally have a sealed room with less than half your volume (and Sierra 2s across the front, Sierra 1s for surround, and a pair of LVX12s subs), and the maximum I normally listen to, even when my wife is out of the house, is around -17.5 dB. Well less than reference, and therefore needing much less from my subs (which still do an admirable job of shaking the walls, couch, doors, etc.).

    If it were me, I'd be perfectly happy with a pair of FV15HPs in a room that size. But I'm not you, and I have no idea what you actually want to do. I suggest that rather than emailing Enrico (or Dave for that matter) I'd pick up the phone and call. Have a conversation, answer their questions, and get a reply customized for your room and your needs. Just sayin'.
    "If it sounds good, it is good." -- Duke Ellington

  6. #6
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    Nov 2014
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    24

    Default Re: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
    But... who actually listens at reference levels in a house? Granted, there are people who do. But are you one of those people?
    This is a key consideration.

    I am not one to listen at reference levels and I am quite happy with a single E15HP in a space of about 20,000 cu ft. I also lucked out and didn't have any major room integration issues with the single sub (courtesy a large, irregular shaped room with open corners).

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    Thanks everyone for your input. Very much appreciated.

    Don't think I need reference level (if that's incredibly loud) anything. I've actually never heard a good or loud (or actually any other) home theater setup, so I'm just trying to get it done close to right. Ordered one FV15HP to start, and will go from there. Did look at the journal article showing two subs were good and best placement.

    Am going to set up the sub per Rythmik's recommendation to start.

    Do I need to get an SPL meter and test my room when I get the sub? Is there a reference where I can see what I need to do, or how to test if so?

    Thanks again for your help.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    Hi,

    Assuming that you will be running some kind of room EQ using a receiver, check out this guide from AVSForum on how to dial in Rythmik subs. I used it when I put in my new F12s. Just did the basics as I don't have a sound meter nor a mike to run REW and got what sounds like good results to my ears.

    Thanks,

    Hawk
    Last edited by Mahawkma; 04-19-2018 at 02:00 PM.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    HT Set-up: Yamaha RX-A2060; Sierra 2 LCR; Luna surrounds; Dual Rythmik F12s plus a L12
    Desktop Set-up: Yamaha RX-730; Ascend Luna's; Polk TL1 Center; Rythmik LV12R

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    Hi Ascend community,

    I have a similar question for my new home theater. The Great room is roughly 3400 cu/ft (The vaulted ceiling makes it really "fun" to try calculating), and is open floor plan, concrete slab with hardwood floors. I had the builder's media guy wire and install a 7.2 setup for ATMOS using in wall speakers front L/C/R, ceiling L/R, and rear L/R. There are two sub hookups in the wall on either side of the TV. Receiver is a DENON X3300 with Audyssey XT32 so it will calibrate and EQ dual subs.

    My budget will be about $1K give or take. Was considering dual LV12R's thinking a ported design will give better output to compensate for the open floor plan.

    Thoughts/comments/concerns?
    Last edited by Mag_Neato; 08-29-2018 at 06:10 AM.
    Ed

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Room size & Rythmik subs.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Hi Ascend community,

    I have a similar question for my new home theater. The Great room is roughly 3400 cu/ft (The vaulted ceiling makes it really "fun" to try calculating), and is open floor plan, concrete slab with hardwood floors. I had the builder's media guy wire and install a 7.2 setup for ATMOS using in wall speakers front L/C/R, ceiling L/R, and rear L/R. There are two sub hookups in the wall on either side of the TV. Receiver is a DENON X3300 with Audyssey XT32 so it will calibrate and EQ dual subs.

    My budget will be about $1K give or take. Was considering dual LV12R's thinking a ported design will give better output to compensate for the open floor plan.

    Thoughts/comments/concerns?
    Let's do some math.

    At 3400 cubic feet, you're around a medium/larger room, going by Audioholics subwoofer room guide: https://www.audioholics.com/loudspea...ofer-room-size

    They recommend your subwoofer be able to output 103 dB at 25 Hz and 109 dB at 31.5 to 63 Hz for a medium room, and 109 dB/115 dB in a large room. Let's split the difference for your room and set your output goals at 106/112 dB, respectively.

    1 FV15HP in 2 port mode can output 113 dB at 25 Hz and averages about 118 dB from 31.5 to 63 Hz by itself: https://data-bass.com/systems

    A single LV12R is down about 8 dB in max output from the FV15HP: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html

    The LV12R would give you about 105 dB at 25 Hz and an average of about 110 dB from 31.5 to 63 Hz. 105/110 is just shy of our target output of 106/112. However, adding a second LV12R can add anywhere from 3-6 dB in your room depending on location across the spectrum and has the added bonus of evening out bass response, so you should be fine. All the above assumptions are if you like to listen to near reference volumes as well.

    If you listen to more reasonable levels, you are more than fine with dual LV12R in your room.
    Last edited by goldark; 08-29-2018 at 11:24 AM.

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