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Thread: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    51

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    I get that ported Rythmiks are tight, but can't help but wonder if I'll appreciate the sealed F18.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    455

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesiskav View Post
    Sound quality wise, I'd say there's not much of a difference between the two of them. All the Rythmiks have great sound quality.
    I remember someone within the past two years, that had listened to both ported and sealed models, describing a little more specifically how the ported and sealed subs are similar. I can't remember who though. Anyway, he said that the sealed Rythmik in medium damping is like the ported Rythmik in high damping, the sealed Rythmik in low damping is like the ported Rythmik in medium damping. So the sealed Rythmik has the ability to go into high damping to get a slight bit better transient response, whereas the ported Rythmik has the ability to go into low damping which will give a slightly fuller bass sound that some like.

    The nice thing about a small sealed room like yours is that one has lots of options, whatever the end use would lean towards (HT or music). If you want the slightly better transient response, no way of having any vent noise (even when pushed really hard with the limiter on) and don't mind spending the extra money per output that you get, then by all means get a sealed sub. If you want to maximize your output per dollar, even down low in the frequencies, and don't mind the larger box, then get a ported sub sized to fit your room. If any of those things lean you more one way or the other, then make your decision based on that. Even Josh Ricci who heard both the F18 and FV18 said that the two sound very similar, echoing what others have said.
    Last edited by N Boros; 01-29-2018 at 02:30 PM.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    51

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    Ahh, I see. That makes sense! Appreciate the details N Boros. It really does feel like sealed is more about form-factor than sound quality with Rythmik (perhaps unlike most other non-active-servo options).

    It's so easy to get enthused about the biggest and baddest option. I think I'm partially thinking F18 because I'd hate to go dual LVX12 and later find myself wanting to upgrade again. But if I'm honest, I'm lusting after the F18. It perhaps doesn't make as much sense on paper.

    This is half the fun I suppose, saving up for a while, reading and obsession, and then seeing where my heart ends up.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    455

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    I say all of this having a room size similar to yours, with HT being the priority and yet considering a larger sealed sub like the F18. Why? The size of any of the Rythmik subs isn't much of an issue for me because I will be able to tuck one behind an acoustically transparent screen and the other in the back of the room out of the way. So I don't care as much about the smaller size. The reason why I am strongly leaning towards a larger sealed sub is because:

    1) I want the absolute best transient response I can get.
    2) I want to have flexibility to cross over any speakers that are producing nulls in the main listening position higher than normal (say 100 to 150 Hz) if necessary.
    3) I want to get output, up to as loud as I normally listen, well below 20Hz to avoid any additional distortion up more in the audible band if the sub can't reproduce it well. This means that I need the larger driver in the sealed lineup to get the distortion to be reasonably low even down below 20 Hz to avoid this issue. I could just get a lesser expensive sub in the Rythmik lineup and have it roll off below 20Hz, but the purist in me would prefer the signal to be accurately reproduced.

    For me these the points are enough to say spend an extra $500 per subwoofer, over a ported model that would probably do wonderfully in the room. But, it doesn't take much of an increase in room size to where it just doesn't even make financial sense for me to consider a sealed sub for HT and I would likely just go with a ported model. Maybe even in blind testing I couldn't tell the difference anyways.
    Last edited by N Boros; 01-29-2018 at 02:49 PM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    I hear you! If nothing else, there's a gut feeling that I'm less likely to have buyer's remorse from an F18 than other options.

    My kingdom for an in-house double-blind test of every Rythmik sub combo possible. ...without having to move, setup, and ship back everything myself, of course!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    455

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    Nothing illustrates the difference in output per dollar with a sealed and a ported Rythmik subwoofer than looking at the data-bass measurements of the F18 vs the FV18. The FV18 is basically (within about $150) the same price as the F18. You get a massive amount more output from the FV18 below 30 to 40 Hz. What you are giving up though is what I mentioned in points 1 and 2 in the previous post. If I didn’t care about those things, then it would be an easy choice to go with a smaller ported sub (FVX15 would probably be overkill), in my room I wouldn’t need the output of a FV18. And points 1 and 2 are actually probably very tiny and maybe inaudible things.
    Last edited by N Boros; 01-29-2018 at 03:18 PM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    360

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    Kdaq, it sounds like the F18 is the one for you. Just go for it!
    Last edited by mikesiskav; 01-29-2018 at 07:47 PM.

  8. #28
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    Apr 2014
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    455

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesiskav View Post
    It sounds like the F18 is the one for you. Just go for it!
    I’m waiting on the G25HP. The output should be pretty similar, but the dual opposed design should reduce any movement the driver might cause on the subwoofer. Who knows if that is even audible though. It should reduce any structural transmission from one room to the next without resorting to grandma pads, sound isolation feet, or anything like that. But if the price is similar, why not go with a theoretically more accurate design.
    Last edited by N Boros; 01-29-2018 at 07:17 PM.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    360

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    Quote Originally Posted by N Boros View Post
    I’m waiting on the G25HP. The output should be pretty similar, but the dual opposed design should reduce any movement the driver might cause on the subwoofer. Who knows if that is even audible though. It should reduce any vibrational transmission from one room to the next without resorting to grandma pads, sound isolation feet, or anything like that. But if the price is similar, why not go with a theoretically more accurate design.
    I meant that for kdaq, I should have been more clear. Has the price of the G25HP been announced? I'm guessing it will be more expensive than the F18 due to the higher power amp and dual woofers. Also the G25HP should be higher performance than the F18, assuming the G25HP matches the F25.
    Last edited by mikesiskav; 01-29-2018 at 07:40 PM.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    455

    Default Re: Upgrade to F18, or second LV12R?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesiskav View Post
    I meant that for kdaq, I should have been more clear. Has the price of the G25HP been announced? I'm guessing it will be more expensive than the F18 due to the higher power amp and dual woofers. Also the G25HP should be higher performance than the F18, assuming the G25HP matches the F25.
    No problem. Sorry for the confusion.

    No the price hasn’t yet been announced. Over in the AVS thread they have said early spring for a release date. And that Josh Ricci will get one to measure in the middle of the summer. I think that the price will be close to the F25, but maybe slightly more money because of the larger amplifier. Due to the smaller form factor that allows shipping via traditional methods and not freight, the prices might come out really close. I’m just guessing though.

    The performance of the F25 is higher, but Rythmik lists it as only a 1.5 dB advantage at 20 Hz. If they remain that close throughout the frequency band, then really they are pretty close. Who knows, maybe the F25 pulls ahead at higher frequencies, where it would be audible.

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