Which center? Luna, S2, or Horizon?

[jimb]

Well this thread has been very surprising to me. I've been saving for a Sierra center and never even considered the Duo. Have a hard time believing it's a better center going by the specs and measurements but if you guys say so than so be it.

As I recall, Dave usually recommends the Duo as a center over the S2.

[MDinno]

It’s hard to compare. All the measurements are taken with the speakers in vertical position (even the Duo despite it’s target audience being people who are looking to use it as a center channel). You’re kind of just going to be going off what people say they hear, which is a point of reference but hardly unbiased I would say. You have to try to distinguish between what is real versus what is people who want to hear something to justify their purchase. If you don’t mind paying for return shipping the best is to try both and see which one sounds better to you.

Very good point. You know there's really not much information on comparing center channels. Everybody online just review bookshelves and tower speakers and assume the center performs equally as well.

[MDinno]

As I recall, Dave usually recommends the Duo as a center over the S2.

I saw that and was surprised. I figured even the 340SE would outperform it. There's really nothing for us to go on other than they measurements that they provide here which is more than any other manufacturer. like I said in my other comment. Reviewers just test bookshelves and towers. Nobody compares center channels they just get thrown in with the bookshelf/tower review.

[Bruce Watson]

Nobody compares center channels they just get thrown in with the bookshelf/tower review.

Learn to search. Plenty of actual users have compared the Duo to the S2 and written it up in this forum. Search and ye shall find. You might even find my comments.

[djDANNY]

I saw that and was surprised. I figured even the 340SE would outperform it. There's really nothing for us to go on other than they measurements that they provide here which is more than any other manufacturer. like I said in my other comment. Reviewers just test bookshelves and towers. Nobody compares center channels they just get thrown in with the bookshelf/tower review.

That’s why I wish Dave would publish measurements of the speakers being sold with a “center channel” configuration in that actual orientation. The RAAL’s have such drastically different horizontal vs vertical dispersion characteristics that I imagine having the tweeter above or next to the woofers would make a big difference if the same crossover is used. With the appropriate measurements available you could make a pretty good guess at the sound differences. People’s subjective opinions are one point of reference but I personally have seen way too much “purchasing bias” to put too much weight into them.

[MDinno]

That’s why I wish Dave would publish measurements of the speakers being sold with a “center channel” configuration in that actual orientation. The RAAL’s have such drastically different horizontal vs vertical dispersion characteristics that I imagine having the tweeter above or next to the woofers would make a big difference if the same crossover is used. With the appropriate measurements available you could make a pretty good guess at the sound differences. People’s subjective opinions are one point of reference but I personally have seen way too much “purchasing bias” to put too much weight into them.

It's exactly what I meant. I'm all over all the audio channels on Youtube etc. It's all bookshelves and towers and never just center channels. Audioholics has some nice interesting articles on the different configurations of centers which was interesting. So the Duo is it according to everyone here. So the Duo is superior to the 340SE mains and center? Will there ever be stands for them like the 340 has?

[djDANNY]

It's exactly what I meant. I'm all over all the audio channels on Youtube etc. It's all bookshelves and towers and never just center channels. Audioholics has some nice interesting articles on the different configurations of centers which was interesting. So the Duo is it according to everyone here. So the Duo is superior to the 340SE mains and center? Will there ever be stands for them like the 340 has?

Well it looks like a new set of measurements for the Duo has become available. They’re still not done in a horizontal configuration but the measurements are shockingly different than what Ascend has posted. Maybe Dave can explain what’s going on. It doesn’t appear to be a “defective” speaker since the major issue appears to have to do with the slot port design. I’m at a loss as to why the measurements are so different than Ascend’s though. Whether you think the reviewer is biased or not, just ignore his subjective comments and look at the measurements. After all, that’s the selling point for most of us who purchased Ascend Acoustics speakers.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.17259/

[Shazb0t]

It appears that the Luna series has some issues with uneven frequency response, port resonances, and distortion.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.17181/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.17259/

[davef]

Well it looks like a new set of measurements for the Duo has become available. They’re still not done in a horizontal configuration but the measurements are shockingly different than what Ascend has posted. Maybe Dave can explain what’s going on. It doesn’t appear to be a “defective” speaker since the major issue appears to have to do with the slot port design. I’m at a loss as to why the measurements are so different than Ascend’s though. Whether you think the reviewer is biased or not, just ignore his subjective comments and look at the measurements. After all, that’s the selling point for most of us who purchased Ascend Acoustics speakers.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.17259/

Unfortunately, at this time I am not able to definitively answer this question. I suspect it has to do with the front slot port, and how that is summing with the response of the drivers. The general shape / trend is similar to our measurements, but Amir’s measurements show a lot of port resonance which is what is creating the sharp spikes in the response.

Our measurements do not show anywhere near this level of port resonance. I mean, there is some degree of port resonance – one of the main reasons we have avoided front slot ports for 2 decades, but the Luna series was a unique and specialized design for us. Exceptionally wide horizontal dispersion, high power handling, great transients – all in a very compact cabinet. With any speaker design, there are always compromises, and in the case of Luna speakers, the design required a long but narrow height front slot port.

The only other compact speaker I was able to find in Amir’s measurements with a front slot port was Salk’s Wow1. This too showed high levels of port resonance influencing the frequency response, which also differs from Salk’s measurements of the same speakers.

One thing I found interesting is that in Amir’s 96 dB distortion measurement, which applies a 60Hz high pass filter, thus rolling off bass below 60Hz, the fundamental – which is the actual frequency response, looks much more similar to ours with less port resonance. I have never used a near field scanning system for loudspeaker measurement, this is a new technology, we use tried and true MLSSA systems, so there may be differences as to how port output is summed in the near field, resolution differences, or the NFS system might be sending a lot of low frequency information to the speaker at a high amplitude – thus exciting port resonances to a higher degree (this could explain the frequency response differences I noted in the distortion)

Keep in mind these speakers are designed to be used crossed at 80Hz with a subwoofer, thus limiting the deep bass they receive, although I am actually using a set full range in my bedroom with a slight bass boost.

What I find most interesting is that we have had tremendous success with both the Luna’s and the Duo’s with regards to satisfaction rates from owners, combined with wonderful comments on how they perform. I myself use these speakers in my bedroom. In fact, to this date – we have only had 3 pairs of Luna’s returned and 4 Duo’s. That translates to return rates of less than 1% for both speakers, which is unheard of in this industry. 4-6% is considered good. This certainly does not translate to Amir's measurements / ratings for them. It is an interesting case study at this point.

I do know that we have never had a Luna/Duo customer complain about port resonance (and I don’t mean chuffing or air noise) and I certainly don’t hear what Amir’s measurements show. So at this point, I am both perplexed and at a loss for words, I most certainly will be diving in to look deeper into this.

As always, let your ears decide…

[djDANNY]

Thanks Dave for the response. I think it’s safe to say that many (if not most) owners of Ascend products made the decision based on the published measurements. When there’s a discrepancy in measurements that puts into question a lot of things. I think a lot of people would like to see how this gets resolved.