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Thread: Differences in sound quality/performance between the LV12R and LVX12/FVX15

  1. #11
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    Feb 2017
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    11

    Default Re: Differences in sound quality/performance between the LV12R and LVX12/FVX15

    My previous post got cut off during a phone call. I was saying that the closet is closed with its 2 sliding doors which are sturdy enough but the edges don't line up perfectly to form a seal on each side. The closet is on the back wall, near the back left corner.

    Anyhow, what I mean by the inverse frequency response comment is that right now I have just the one LV12R in the front right corner and with some pretty significant EQ I can get a ruler flat response at the MLP, which is a couple feet right of the dead center of the room. If I measure in the back left corner with this EQ, the dips and peaks I was correcting at the MLP are now reversed. For example, a wide 6-8dB dip around 42Hz at the MLP is a big modal peak at 42Hz at the back left corner or even just back center wall.

  2. #12
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    Feb 2017
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    Default Re: Differences in sound quality/performance between the LV12R and LVX12/FVX15

    Also, right now my upgrade priorities are:

    1. New AVR with Audyssey XT32 and Sub EQ HT like Denon AVR-X3300W or the 2017 equivalent. My entry level Yamaha AVR from 2013 isn't on par with my speakers and sub.

    2. New TV with 4K/HDR/WCG and best black levels and contrast ratio I can afford and fit. Likely 50 or 55 inches, OLED or FALD LED-LCD. My Samsung LED-LCD from 2013 is lacking these new features and really limited in blacks and contrast ratio. But it has a great picture in most other aspects of PQ.

    3. 2nd sub and/or Atmos modules for fronts. Possibly get Prime Sats to match my Prime Bookshelves and center fronts. Currently using Cambridge S20 sats as surrounds and not sure if Prime sats will be a worthwhile upgrade.


    I am still figuring out whether I need a 2nd sub for just the MLP, since EQ is highly effective. However, it would be nice to not need it as much and not have the back wall, especially back left corner be so excessively boomy and loud, especially around 42Hz. Current EQ works pretty well in MLP and middle of room. It's the back wall that is downright unpleasant.


    My current HT setup is Prime bookshelf and center fronts and Cambridge S20 surrounds with a Samsung 46 inch UN46EH6030 LED-LCD and Yamaha HTR-3066 5.1ch AVR. My sources are PS4, XB1, and X1 cable box. I use my setup mainly for movies and games and some casual music listening in the background when playing driving games or working out. It's also a bedroom so the MLP is on the bed, which is along the right wall. I have chronic back pain that limits me to the bed as a MLP as I cannot sit or stand for long enough to watch movies.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    11

    Default Re: Differences in sound quality/performance between the LV12R and LVX12/FVX15

    here is what EQ does at MLP with sub in front right corner about 1ft from right wall (mlp is on bed about 5-6 feet behind sub and 1ft left of sub... which is basically a couple feet right of dead center of room):
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    Default Re: Differences in sound quality/performance between the LV12R and LVX12/FVX15

    more pics of EQ
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: png 2.png (33.9 KB, 53 views)
    • File Type: png 3.png (75.1 KB, 51 views)

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    457

    Default Re: Differences in sound quality/performance between the LV12R and LVX12/FVX15

    Quote Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
    Also, right now my upgrade priorities are:

    1. New AVR with Audyssey XT32 and Sub EQ HT like Denon AVR-X3300W or the 2017 equivalent. My entry level Yamaha AVR from 2013 isn't on par with my speakers and sub.

    2. New TV with 4K/HDR/WCG and best black levels and contrast ratio I can afford and fit. Likely 50 or 55 inches, OLED or FALD LED-LCD. My Samsung LED-LCD from 2013 is lacking these new features and really limited in blacks and contrast ratio. But it has a great picture in most other aspects of PQ.

    3. 2nd sub and/or Atmos modules for fronts. Possibly get Prime Sats to match my Prime Bookshelves and center fronts. Currently using Cambridge S20 sats as surrounds and not sure if Prime sats will be a worthwhile upgrade.


    I am still figuring out whether I need a 2nd sub for just the MLP, since EQ is highly effective. However, it would be nice to not need it as much and not have the back wall, especially back left corner be so excessively boomy and loud, especially around 42Hz. Current EQ works pretty well in MLP and middle of room. It's the back wall that is downright unpleasant.


    My current HT setup is Prime bookshelf and center fronts and Cambridge S20 surrounds with a Samsung 46 inch UN46EH6030 LED-LCD and Yamaha HTR-3066 5.1ch AVR. My sources are PS4, XB1, and X1 cable box. I use my setup mainly for movies and games and some casual music listening in the background when playing driving games or working out. It's also a bedroom so the MLP is on the bed, which is along the right wall. I have chronic back pain that limits me to the bed as a MLP as I cannot sit or stand for long enough to watch movies.
    First off, your measurements look pretty darn good, nice job on that. Judging by that, adding a second sub is likely only going to give you more output, not better quality. It looks like you don't have any serious nodes, just some small dips. During high LFE scenes, though, having two subs makes the whole experience feel more realistic, so there is definitely going to be a plus, I just don't think it's an immediate need.

    Since you have to lay against that back wall, I would highly recommend some kind of treatment behind you. It's really the only way you're going to be able to fight that bass boom unless you can move your bed back from the wall and use a headboard. The more material you can get behind you and in the corners to the left and right of you, the more you can treat that boomyness. Four inches of fiberglass absorption panels/bass traps is ideal.

    I would honestly consider some room treatments long before I'd consider upgrading your satellite speakers or even adding a second sub. Treatments will give you far more benefit, especially in a more even and wider soundstage, less boomyness in the bass, and better bass and even vocal articulation. I would look at GIK, ATS, Acoustimac, and NextAcoustics if you are cool with foam and not heavier fiberglass style panels. Vicoustic also makes great foam stuff, but they are under a dealer model so it's expensive.

    If you aren't able to treat behind your head at all, at least get corner bass traps and hang at least a 2" panel on the wall above your head.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    11

    Default Re: Differences in sound quality/performance between the LV12R and LVX12/FVX15

    Just to clarify, the bed is against right wall, so mlp is about 2-3 feet from right wall but about 5-6 feet from back wall. So, no boominess in mlp with sub set to mid or high damping.

    However, if I sit elsewhere temporarily like when using my laptop or exercising, the whole back wall is boomy, especially near the back left. But I guess it is non-critical listening and I don't need to spend another $600 for that. Maybe I just need to move my laptop further forward away from the back wall.

  7. #17
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    Feb 2017
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    Default Re: Differences in sound quality/performance between the LV12R and LVX12/FVX15

    BTW, I have tried other placements like left midwall, front left corner, and just behind the bed on right wall. None measured nearly as well, though left midwall was better than the other 2 by a significant amount.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    457

    Default Re: Differences in sound quality/performance between the LV12R and LVX12/FVX15

    Quote Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
    BTW, I have tried other placements like left midwall, front left corner, and just behind the bed on right wall. None measured nearly as well, though left midwall was better than the other 2 by a significant amount.
    Perfect, gotcha. Sorry for not understanding your layout, think I have it now. I still think room treatments is your best way to go now to get significant improvements in your room. After that, second sub, and new satellites after that.

    Great job on measuring and figuring out how to optimize what you have. Most people don't do that very well. Hell, I didn't even do nearly as much as you have.

    I get what you mean about inverse response now, that makes sense. A second sub will certainly help even that out. Audyssey XT32 is also supposed to really help with that, as you have obviously read. All of the testing shows it to be a great solution.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

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