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Thread: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

  1. #11

    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Shouldn't be much difference in optical vs coax. I like optical too. It would work. The dock must support the apple USB core audio. Since it is either that or analog audio on the 30pin connector. But it's unknown what bit/sample rate it outputting. I suspect the stream would go down to 48khz or 96 for compatibility from the original source. Imho I would recommend eliminating it from the chain since it could lose some resolution and introduce jitter before the dac.
    Last edited by eyecatcher; 10-29-2016 at 02:01 PM.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Quote Originally Posted by eyecatcher View Post
    Shouldn't be much difference in optical vs coax. I like optical too. It would work. The dock must support the apple USB core audio. Since it is either that or analog audio on the 30pin connector. But it's unknown what bit/sample rate it outputting. I suspect the stream would go down to 48khz or 96 for compatibility from the original source. Imho I would recommend eliminating it from the chain since it could lose some resolution and introduce jitter before the dac.
    I don't think there is any audible difference between coax and optical unless you're talking about long cable lengths, where optical will perform better.

    If the dock is able to extract the full bit stream from the phone it should output whatever sample rate your file is. If it's downsampling it would have to be doing a lot more processing, and I'm pretty sure the dock isn't doing that. Previous Apple computers have been limited at 24/96 output and the phones may be the same, but that should have no effect on the dock transferring anything that the phone can.

    But yes, iPhone and Apple audio stuff can be wonky and I prefer to just use my PC with Foobar or my iBasso DX80 as a transport.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

  3. #13
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    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Ok, having established that the dock is merely extracting the full potential of the Apple device, back to the original question: Will adding a dedicated DAC bring any sonic improvements?

  4. #14
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    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Ok, having established that the dock is merely extracting the full potential of the Apple device, back to the original question: Will adding a dedicated DAC bring any sonic improvements?
    Schiit Multibit DACs will absolutely sound better than what you are using now.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

  5. #15
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    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Quote Originally Posted by sludgeogre View Post
    Schiit Multibit DACs will absolutely sound better than what you are using now.
    Ok, can you elaborate further as to the improvements you experienced personally? Did you do any sort of A/B comparison? Acoustic memory is extremely short and I have found that unless you can switch instantaneously while the music is playing it can be very difficult to hear differences. Now, if you are a critical listener and know the material being played intimately then it could be possible to notice differences in playback.
    Ed

  6. #16
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    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Ok, can you elaborate further as to the improvements you experienced personally? Did you do any sort of A/B comparison? Acoustic memory is extremely short and I have found that unless you can switch instantaneously while the music is playing it can be very difficult to hear differences. Now, if you are a critical listener and know the material being played intimately then it could be possible to notice differences in playback.
    Refer to my first reply in the thread. Bigger soundstage, better detail, better dynamics. Big sense of openness and natural, live quality to it that normal Delta-Sigma DACs lack.

    If you want a ton more impressions and info, look here: http://www.head-fi.org/t/782824/schi...ltibit-is-here
    Last edited by sludgeogre; 10-31-2016 at 07:15 AM.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

  7. #17

    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Ok, having established that the dock is merely extracting the full potential of the Apple device, back to the original question: Will adding a dedicated DAC bring any sonic improvements?
    IMHO the weak link may still be the iphone and dock. However, TIDAL's highest quality Flac is 1411 kbps - Lossless (16/44.1 khz). Dynamic range at that rate is about 96db and it shouldn't be compromised when passing through it. If you have better music on the iphone like DSD or files with bitrates were higher say 24/192khz you could be losing with the combination. However I'd advise you to try out the schitt using their 15-Day Satisfaction Guarantee and let us know since your ears would be the only ones to tell us..

  8. #18
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    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Quote Originally Posted by eyecatcher View Post
    IMHO the weak link may still be the iphone and dock. However, TIDAL's highest quality Flac is 1411 kbps - Lossless (16/44.1 khz). Dynamic range at that rate is about 96db and it shouldn't be compromised when passing through it. If you have better music on the iphone like DSD or files with bitrates were higher say 24/192khz you could be losing with the combination. However I'd advise you to try out the schitt using their 15-Day Satisfaction Guarantee and let us know since your ears would be the only ones to tell us..
    Well, I may have to try that one of these days. $600 is not insignificant, especially towards the end of the year. Birthdays & Christmas are biggies.
    Last edited by Mag_Neato; 10-31-2016 at 11:33 AM.
    Ed

  9. #19
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    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Mag_Neato View Post
    Ok, can you elaborate further as to the improvements you experienced personally? Did you do any sort of A/B comparison? Acoustic memory is extremely short and I have found that unless you can switch instantaneously while the music is playing it can be very difficult to hear differences. Now, if you are a critical listener and know the material being played intimately then it could be possible to notice differences in playback.
    I have a Bifrost with Multibit upgrade, and did A/B vs. the onboard DAC from my Yamaha integrated. I used the exact same files, and could clearly hear a difference. The Bifrost just had / has more detail to my ears.

    I've since upgraded the Yamaha to higher end integrated (Plinius) which does not have an onboard DAC, so the Shiit has become a "must have" in my signal chain.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: DAC in AVR vs Dedicated DAC

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybeez View Post
    I have a Bifrost with Multibit upgrade, and did A/B vs. the onboard DAC from my Yamaha integrated. I used the exact same files, and could clearly hear a difference. The Bifrost just had / has more detail to my ears.

    I've since upgraded the Yamaha to higher end integrated (Plinius) which does not have an onboard DAC, so the Shiit has become a "must have" in my signal chain.
    Thanks for adding your comments. I am really curious as to how it would compare to the Marantz DAC. I guess I will have to eventually give it a try.

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