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Thread: Sierra-2

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    331

    Default Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by SONDEK View Post
    Being brutally honest, discovering now that the SIERRA-2EX has ushered-in a whole new woofer design - rightly or wrongly - only reinforces my previous assumptions about the SIERRA-2. I.E. That the all-new woofer was designed to restore to the SIERRA-2 the kick-ass bass that the SIERRA-1 was rightly famous for!

    Based purely upon my web-based research, I'm left with the impresson that the SIERRA-2EX has solved this bass problem with the SIERRA-2 and predict that the latter will be ultimately phased-out as a result - long before the SIERRA-1 disappears from the scene.

    As I say, I might be totally wrong about this - but no matter how you slice it, it does leave the SIERRA-2EX looking like a real winner!

    Let's see...
    I'm not sure if categorizing the Sierra 2EX as a way of fixing the "bass problem" of the Sierra 2 is all that accurate. From what I was able to grasp parsing through the Sierra 2 Development thread is that the Sierra 2 was designed with the goal of having the Raal ribbon tweeter available in the Sierra 1 cabinet, so that an upgrade in drivers and crossover is all that is needed, for those interested. This is to help make it as easy as possible for those with the Sierra 1 to upgrade to the Seirra 2, if they would like to do so. A new woofer was needed to match the improved capabilities of the Raal ribbon tweeter, so the Curv woofer was what was designed to work well in conjunction with it. This was all completed around 2011 to 2012 (from what I remember).

    Then Dave was approached by a guy from Seas within the past couple of years about a diamond tweeter. Dave was at first skeptical, if anyone at all would be interested in such an expensive tweeter being integrated into a design of a new speaker either in a bookshelf or tower speaker design, so he started a thread posting pictures of the new tweeter and then eventually some of his thoughts of the improvements of using it in the design would be after spending much time listening to a concept speaker with that tweeter. It did appear, that at least some on the forum, were interested in purchasing such a speaker. But, due to the high cost, he was making them completely custom to what each person wanted. It sounded like each speaker would be voiced to taste in the crossover, and such. In that same thread people began to notice that a new woofer was used with the diamond tweeter, when used in a bookshelf design. So several started asking if it could be made available as an upgrade to the Sierra 2. Dave went through the effort of making this upgrade available.

    This happens all the time with speaker designers. As they make more and more speaker designes they let some of their design strategies from the more higher end (cost no object designs) trickle down to the lower cost models. Sometimes they will even use some of the same components, like we see here. What is unique here with Ascend is that those with Sierra 2's don't need to sell the entire speaker to upgrade. There is an upgrade path that exists by simply replacing the woofer and crossover. There is more money to be made by Ascend to NOT do things this way.

    I would be more concerned if a speaker designer, never went back and ever improved any existing models. It seems to only be the case at Ascend when Dave feels that the upgrade is enough, to be noticeably better. This seems to be a much better approach than manufacturers who upgrade each product every year or two and those that hear the speaker have a hard time hearing any difference at all. Just as bad, would be if there is a huge and noticeable difference heard with each iteration, that is done that frequently. In both cases it brings into question the competence of the speaker designer.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    S.E. La. - USA
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    120

    Cool Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by SONDEK View Post
    ...Based purely upon my web-based research, I'm left with the impresson that the SIERRA-2EX has solved this bass problem with the SIERRA-2 and predict that the latter will be ultimately phased-out as a result - long before the SIERRA-1 disappears from the scene...
    Sondek,

    Being brutally honest with you, I assure you there was No problem\issues with the Sierra-2 Curv Woofer. I had the Sierra-2's side by side with the Sierra-1 NrT's (which included the original Sierra-1 woofer) playing full range for 30 days, and at No time did the S2 woofer bottom end Ever bow down to the Sierra-1's bass!!! Actually, I always found the S2 Curv woofer was more dynamic, hit harder and had better, faster and more accurate bass tonality transients, no matter what genre of music we were listening to! The differences weren't huge, but discernible and repeatable.

    The Curv woofer keeps up with and matches the RAAL top end of the S-2, just as Dave has designed it to. However, none of these findings mean it was the best...there Is no Best! Performance improvements are always the future and Dave's design endeavor into a "Very Heavy Duty Hitting" 6" for the S-2Di Diamond Dome system ultimately became a logical step to "enhancing" the full capabilities of the S-2 RAAL! If this all sounds too simple or logical, that's because It Is!

    IMHO, I'd forget about any "professional reviews" and dig into the member S-2 forums here...They are the real-world experiences of audio\music lovers that Own the Sierra-2's and who intimately know what they are talking about!!

    Ted
    Sierra-1 NrT's, Axiom EP 500, Emotiva USP-1, Emotiva UPA-2, Phillips CD880 (dedicated 2.1 listening room)!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?

    "Being brutally honest", it is flawed thinking to assume if a designer or manufacturer evolves a product, that the previous iteration of that product is somehow problematic !!!

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by theophile View Post
    Sondek,

    Being brutally honest with you, I assure you there was No problem\issues with the Sierra-2 Curv Woofer. I had the Sierra-2's side by side with the Sierra-1 NrT's (which included the original Sierra-1 woofer) playing full range for 30 days, and at No time did the S2 woofer bottom end Ever bow down to the Sierra-1's bass!!! Actually, I always found the S2 Curv woofer was more dynamic, hit harder and had better, faster and more accurate bass tonality transients, no matter what genre of music we were listening to! The differences weren't huge, but discernible and repeatable.

    Ted
    BRAVO TED! This is exactly what I needed to know.

    Thanks for all the great responses guys... Seems I was way off-track here with my conclusions above.
    (Symptomatic of this brave new online world that we are all making best efforts to navigate...)
    I'm looking at the SIERRA-2EX Impedance measurements and thinking this could be the one!

  5. #15

    Default Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by SONDEK View Post
    ...[I apologise for simply dismissing your viewpoint as nonsense, Darren. There is indeed more to this than meets the eye and I stand corrected... -SONDEK]...
    No worries. I made a statement contrary to your point of view but didn't take the time to back it up so completely understand why you would be dismissive of the statement.

    And on the subject of reviews, professional or otherwise, please do come back and post your own review when/if you get the EXes.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    4,106

    Default Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?

    Quote Originally Posted by SONDEK View Post
    Being brutally honest, discovering now that the SIERRA-2EX has ushered-in a whole new woofer design - rightly or wrongly - only reinforces my previous assumptions about the SIERRA-2. I.E. That the all-new woofer was designed to restore to the SIERRA-2 the kick-ass bass that the SIERRA-1 was rightly famous for!

    Based purely upon my web-based research, I'm left with the impresson that the SIERRA-2EX has solved this bass problem with the SIERRA-2 and predict that the latter will be ultimately phased-out as a result - long before the SIERRA-1 disappears from the scene.

    As I say, I might be totally wrong about this - but no matter how you slice it, it does leave the SIERRA-2EX looking like a real winner!

    Let's see...
    Hi Sondek,

    This is interesting to me. The Sierra-2 woofer is a significantly more advanced woofer in every possible performance characteristic than the Sierra-1 woofer. The S2 woofer gives up a few Hz in ultimate bass extension to the Sierra-1 woofer, but it dramatically improves upon the transient accuracy, detail and linearity of the Sierra-1 woofer. I could have changed the design of the S2 woofer such that the moving mass was higher, which would have provided deeper bass, but that would have been at the cost of the other performance characteristics I mentioned. For a woofer that is meant to match with a RAAL ribbon tweeter, transient accuracy, detail and the ability to cross at a higher frequency are of the utmost importance.

    To assume there was a problem with the bass response in the Sierra-2, a speaker that we have been selling for the past 5 years with sales numbers that eclipse Sierra-1 sales, is a completely wrong assumption.

    The EX woofer in the Sierra-2EX was developed as a cost no object woofer by SEAS to be matched with their diamond tweeter, tweeters that retail for over $7200 for the pair. Turned out that the performance of this woofer was simply remarkable - significant improvements over the Sierra-2 woofer and many leagues beyond the Sierra-1 woofer, so why not match it with the Sierra-2 ribbon tweeter?

    Most companies upgrade / change their models every year, offering what they claim is improved performance when in reality, they simply look to reduce manufacturing costs for the model as raw material pricing continually increases every year. With the Sierra-2EX, we are offering a very significant performance improvement for the Sierra-2, the first change to the model since its introduction over 5 years ago....
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Sierra-1 NrT: Next phase?

    To assume there was a problem with the bass response in the Sierra-2, a speaker that we have been selling for the past 5 years with sales numbers that eclipse Sierra-1 sales, is a completely wrong assumption.
    Hi Dave! Interesting information. News to me and very good to know!

    I'm very happy to have been wrong in my assumptions above. I just wanted to share my journey, leaving ample room for correction. As I'd hoped, you've brought me around.

    Apologies if my skewed thoughts through this process have in any way tainted an otherwise overwhelmingly positive thread - as it relates to both SIERRA-2 and SIERRA-2EX...

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