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Thread: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

  1. #21
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    Feb 2016
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    The other speaker you constantly hear about with a built in subwoofer is the GoldenEar Triton One. I was pretty close to getting a set of their speakers as well, but the black monolith design where you can't remove the cloth to see the drivers was a no go for me. I love staring at those beautiful drivers.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    I love my Ascend speakers and have owned 4 different models. The only speaker missing from the line up is one with more "presence"...I mean with larger woofers playing to around 20 Hz.
    Maybe add the Diamond tweeter? This would compete with a lot of much more expensive set ups.
    Probably kick some a-- too.

    B.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesiskav View Post
    How about a Sierra Tower with RAAL and a Rythmik F8 built in! That would be awesome. Unfortunately a competitor already did something like that, so I'm not sure if Dave would want to do the same thing.
    Interesting, but I'm not sure I would see the benifit. The towers are capable enough that they don't need a mid-bass module and for anything below 80hz, it would be best just to add a couple of Rythmiks where you would be free to move them around in the room. This way you could get the best low frequency response.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesiskav View Post
    No doubt there is some validity to that statement. But then again JBL by Harmon does have this speaker, the M2, with a built in 15 inch woofer and response all the way down to 20hz.

    http://www.jblpro.com/products/recor...l#.V1jFestlBnF

    The main design goal of the JBL speakers is for professional sound mixers for films and music can continuously listen to 85 dB levels and up to 115 dB peaks at about 20 to 25 ft away, with low distortion. I think this is around 130 dB/W/m efficiency. They had to go to extraordinary lengths to get a tweeter and 15 inch woofer to play nice together. In other words, just to get the off axis response to match the on axis response pretty closely out as far as 60 degrees off axis. You can listen to the designers of the speaker talk about the specifics on the somewhat recent Home Theater Geeks episode (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDmzfpf3fCk ). I found the podcast episode very interesting. I loved hearing about all of this new and exciting design approaches that went into making this speaker.

    For most typical consumers we do not need this speaker. Ascend already designs loudspeakers that are accurate with exceptional off axis response, excellent transient response and many other attributes. As long as you are not wanting to play them at 85dB continuously with 115 dB peaks at 20 to 25 ft away, the Ascend towers with the Raal ribbon tweeter might even outperform the JBLs in some areas. Do you need speakers that can play this loud? Even Scott Wilkenson, the host of the podcast, asked the JBL designers several times why recording engineers want to listen to the speakers at such a high level for extended periods of time. His concern was damage to their hearing. If I had a home theater that I was setting up for 20 or 30 people I might seriously consider the JBLs. Realistically, I might setup a home theater for at most two rows of seats where the second row is at most 15 feet away from the speakers. The Sierra towers should give more output that I would ever want or need in that case. In fact, the bigger challenge for a multiple row setup from my perspective is getting the sight-lines right so that all the viewers can see the screen unobstructed. But, I like a really big screen for an immersive experience. This is why I am likely just going to stay with one row of seats in my home theater.

    Anyways, the reason why Golden ear, SVS, etc. are putting these "subwoofers" in their cabinets is to appeal to the audiophile crowd that thinks subwoofers are bad. The only speakers that this crowd wants in their room are full range large tower speakers for a two channel setup. In just about any room, if you were to cut off the lower portion of those cabinets to give you the freedom to move the subwoofers around in the room to find the best location for uniform bass (midpoints of opposing walls in sealed rectangular rooms) and put the top portion, the satellite speakers, where you can get the best imaging, it would be possible to get the speakers to sound good in more than just one seat. In fact, with a bit of EQ on the subs, you can likely make it sound better in several seats than you could in one seat leaving the speaker together as a tower and no EQ. I am mentioning this because the audiophile crowd doesn't even like much manipulating the sound with things like EQ either, to help correct anomalies that arise from the room interaction.

    I should mention that having tower speakers in a larger space can be of use to help pressurize the space. A recent article goes into much detail with this: https://www.audioholics.com/room-aco...ation-of-sound. So speakers like the SVS towers, Golden Ear towers, etc. can be of use from this perspective. However, the Sierra towers should be sufficient in most spaces, even ones that are quite large, in terms of helping the subwoofer pressurize the space. But, I doubt the SVS towers, or Golden Ear towers and the like, were originally designed with this in mind. I do think that they are more likely trying to cater to the audiophile crowd that doesn't like subwoofers and plan to use them in a two channel setup.
    Last edited by N Boros; 06-09-2016 at 08:04 AM.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    Great write up and thank you for the link to the podcast, N Boros! I did not know that about the M2, quite fascinating. It really puts things in perspective.

    I upgraded to my Sierra Towers from Magnepan Tympani 1D speakers that my Dad bought in 1972. They were pretty great with an obviously immense soundstage and a really sweet sound to them. They filled the entire house with sound because of the way it pressurized the room and because it's a dipole. It was pretty cool in that regard, music sounded realistic even in other rooms, just kind of an added bonus. The only thing that I didn't like is that they really lacked dynamics for movies, even when bi-amped from my XPA-5.

    The Towers really pressurize the room in a crazy way, especially with the subs going, but even sans subs you can feel the music much more than with a Magnepan. It's quite a large open room with a kitchen and dining room and I still get entranced with the dynamics and detail of the system. I really can't wait to put it in a sealed room of smaller size. One day.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    Nice post N Boros.

    I will add, not to sound negative, but I have found that many "audiophiles" don't even understand basic acoustics.
    -curtis

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by curtis View Post
    Nice post N Boros.

    I will add, not to sound negative, but I have found that many "audiophiles" don't even understand basic acoustics.
    It was a good past by N Boros!
    Curtis, I agree! Look at the success **** has had.....enough said!

    On a unrelated note, did dave present you with those Diamond tweeters for your Birthday? Moderating this site must be tedious and time consuming


    edit - why doesn't "b.o.s.e" show up correctly in a post?

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    4 letter words are usually censored, no?

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikesiskav View Post
    No doubt there is some validity to that statement. But then again JBL by Harmon does have this speaker, the M2, with a built in 15 inch woofer and response all the way down to 20hz.

    http://www.jblpro.com/products/recor...l#.V1jFestlBnF
    The response may be all the way down to 20hz but that will be wasted if the speaker is not positioned properly in the room to take advantage of that bass output.

    I used to have Mirage OMD-28's with a pair of 8" woofers that reviews said could go down to 18 hz. But I still had to use a sub with them because the place I had them in the room was lousy for bass frequencies.

    Those were a few generations of speakers ago and now I have the Sierra 2's, which are the best that I've ever owned. I use a Power Sound Audio XS-15SE sub with it and love the sound.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Upgrading past Ascend's flagship speakers?

    Quote Originally Posted by monkuboy View Post
    The response may be all the way down to 20hz but that will be wasted if the speaker is not positioned properly in the room to take advantage of that bass output.

    I used to have Mirage OMD-28's with a pair of 8" woofers that reviews said could go down to 18 hz. But I still had to use a sub with them because the place I had them in the room was lousy for bass frequencies.

    Those were a few generations of speakers ago and now I have the Sierra 2's, which are the best that I've ever owned. I use a Power Sound Audio XS-15SE sub with it and love the sound.
    This makes a lot of sense. Now after seeing that the M2's are also meant to be used from quite a distance and are meant for huge dynamic range, I bet they wouldn't go down very low at the volumes I listen at or the distance I sit from my speakers. Very interesting stuff.
    -Alex
    PS4/Nvidia Shield --> Emotiva XMC-1 --> Emotiva XPA-5 --> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers and Horizon Center w/ RAAL tweeters (L/C/R), HTM-200 SE (Surrounds), 2x Rythmik F12 subwoofers

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