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Thread: Diamond Tweeter?

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by sludgeogre View Post
    The more I think of it, the more I am open to eventually upgrading to the Diamond tweeters after a few years with my RAAL setup, after I finally get my Sierra Sats. The only way I would consider it, though, is if vertical dispersion was vastly increased over the RAALs, and if everything else remained just as fantastic. Really the only thing I miss over the Aperion speakers I heard a couple years ago is the excellent veritcal dispersion they had, even though horizontally they were probably less wide than the Sierras, although that doesn't matter too much to me since I only deal with seating two people, max. The Sierra Towers beat the pants off of all of Aperion's products in every other way, especially extension, as the Aperion speakers sounded quite veiled by comparison.

    Although, I haven't gotten my speakers in a good room yet, and I haven't done any room treatments, so this opinion may change based on how my RAAL towers and Horizon center sound in a dedicated, treated room.
    Keep in mind that limited vertical directivity, especially in a tower speaker, has very significant sonic benefits by reducing both floor and ceiling reflections... The design of our towers, even the dome versions, have limited vertical directivity. It is one of the main reasons for the somewhat unusual design of placing the midrange driver above the tweeter. That and providing a more defined acoustic center for a 3-way.

    When it comes down to comparing the vertical directivity of a 29mm dome versus the ribbon in the tower, we are really only talking about an increase of ~ +/- 5 degs, which isn't much... At 10 feet back, the vertical listening window expands by only ~ +/- 10 inches.

    I see the major benefits of the diamond tweeter being the delicacy and transparency of our ribbon sound, combined with that more forward in-your-face type sound and edge that dome tweeter fans love. The dispersion of this tweeter is already exceptionally good, but until I am able to take polar measurements of a completed design - I can't really get too deep into any dispersion advantages (if any)...
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Keep in mind that limited vertical directivity, especially in a tower speaker, has very significant sonic benefits by reducing both floor and ceiling reflections... The design of our towers, even the dome versions, have limited vertical directivity. It is one of the main reasons for the somewhat unusual design of placing the midrange driver above the tweeter. That and providing a more defined acoustic center for a 3-way.

    When it comes down to comparing the vertical directivity of a 29mm dome versus the ribbon in the tower, we are really only talking about an increase of ~ +/- 5 degs, which isn't much... At 10 feet back, the vertical listening window expands by only ~ +/- 10 inches.

    I see the major benefits of the diamond tweeter being the delicacy and transparency of our ribbon sound, combined with that more forward in-your-face type sound and edge that dome tweeter fans love. The dispersion of this tweeter is already exceptionally good, but until I am able to take polar measurements of a completed design - I can't really get too deep into any dispersion advantages (if any)...
    This is fantastic information, Dave, thank you! I had been wondering why the Sierra was so different from many other towers with the midrange above the tweeter, and now I have my answer.

    In terms of directivity, I heard the Aperion Verus Grands in their office, which was well treated and in a rectangular room. The room I have my Sierra Towers in now is a giant, open, atrocious vaulted ceiling room with no treatments, so I'm sure that has some kind of impact on what I'm hearing with regards to dispersion, as well as just being excited to be hearing Aperion's gear after I had followed them for a while. I did not know the measured difference in directivity was so insignificant.

    I've always found if slightly confusing that dome tweeter lovers extol the benefits of "in-your-face" sound of dome tweeters. I'm a technical death metal fan, and most people would describe that music as "in-your-face", but I have always preferred the sound of a more transparent and smooth sound. My Audeze LCD-2 headphones serve that up in spades and I am a huge fan of it, and the Sierra Towers do the same thing, but don't have the uneven treble response that the LCD-2 can sometimes portray. I can listen to my RAAL towers for hours without realizing how much time has passed, they're just so beautiful.

    Welp, now I'm back to my initial thoughts that the Sierra Towers with RAAL tweeters are my end game, hooray! I was just so entranced by the initial thoughts of how this tweeter might sound. Now I can focus my upgrade money on buying as many pairs of Sierra Sats as I can get my hands on

  3. #43
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    Thumbs up Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Got to hear my first Diamond Domes today! Went to a nice setup in a 12x16x8ft treated audio salon room, high quality electronics pushing B&W 805 D3 2-way monitors. Music selections (12 CD's from my collections) consisted of solo vocalist, instrumentals, small group jazz ensembles, cathedral choirs w\pipe organ, acoustic guitars, jazz piano, orchestral sting ensembles and some musical test tracts from labels of ABS and Chesky Records.

    In the first hour of listening (1 of 4), I couldn't decide if I liked the veiled midrange presence of the mid\woofer. The presentation was somewhat warm, but detailed. However for the B&W overall sound, the midrange was pleasant and upper bass responses tight and had good definition, but something there in a seamless timbre integration between the transducers (diamond and Mid\woofer) had me wondering if the x-over needed tweaking. This off integration seemed to also affect the sound stage, as it was tight and focused between the speakers (8ft apart), but no SS to the outside like my Sierra 1's. Depth was also pretty flat, with little presence beyond the listening wall versus the S1 that with the right recording, can show the full depth of the recording venue!

    Eventually, I started to appreciate the extra detail, natural timbre and ease of presentation in the diamond tweeter as I was hearing nuances that weren't as perceivable in my S1 NrT's. I imagine this B&W diamond has similar clarity to the RAAL ribbon in its presence and effortless sonic character. It truly is intoxicating as I finally enjoyed the long listening session.

    Dave, I'm sure the SEAS Diamond + Ascend know how will facilitate a "seamless audio integration" that could easily surpass what B&W is offering in a bookshelf high end monitor!!! Bringing it in well under that MSRP as a creative stunning performance virtuoso monitor will just be icing on the cake!!!

    Ted
    Last edited by theophile; 05-04-2016 at 06:39 AM.
    Sierra RAAL V2 Towers, Axiom EP 500 Sub, Morrow SP7 Grand Reference Speaker Cables, Phillips CD880 XLR Balanced Variable Line Output to Orchard Audio Strakrimson 375w/per ch Stereo Ultra GaNFET Amp..... (Dedicated 2.1 Acoustical Music Listening Room)!

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    77

    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Dave, for the "Diamond Edition" Towers would you anticipate similar
    Sensitivity & power handling capabilities as NRT / RAAL or possibly Higher output?
    Thanks, Dave
    MacMini > Audirvana > Musical Fidelity V Dac II >
    Emotiva XSP-1 > Emotiva XPA-2 > Sierra Tower NRT > Rythmik F12SE > My Ears >

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by theophile View Post
    Got to hear my first Diamond Domes today! Went to a nice setup in a 12x16x8ft treated audio salon room, high quality electronics pushing B&W 805 D3 2-way monitors. Music selections (12 CD's from my collections) consisted of solo vocalist, instrumentals, small group jazz ensembles, cathedral choirs w\pipe organ, acoustic guitars, jazz piano, orchestral sting ensembles and some musical test tracts from labels of ABS and Chesky Records.

    In the first hour of listening (1 of 4), I couldn't decide if I liked the veiled midrange presence of the mid\woofer. The presentation was somewhat warm, but detailed. However for the B&W overall sound, the midrange was pleasant and upper bass responses tight and had good definition, but something there in a seamless timbre integration between the transducers (diamond and Mid\woofer) had me wondering if the x-over needed tweaking. This off integration seemed to also affect the sound stage, as it was tight and focused between the speakers (8ft apart), but no SC to the outside like my Sierra 1's. Depth was also pretty flat, with little presence beyond the listening wall versus the S1 that with the right recording, can show the full depth of the recording venue!

    Eventually, I started to appreciate the extra detail, natural timbre and ease of presentation in the diamond tweeter as I was hearing nuances that weren't as perceivable in my S1 NrT's. I imagine this B&W diamond has similar clarity to the RAAL ribbon in its presence and effortless sonic character. It truly is intoxicating as I finally enjoyed the long listening session.

    Dave, I'm sure the SEAS Diamond + Ascend know how will facilitate a "seamless audio integration" that could easily surpass what B&W is offering in a bookshelf high end monitor!!! Bringing it in well under that MSRP as a creative stunning performance virtuoso monitor will just be icing on the cake!!!

    Ted
    Hi Ted,

    I feel it very important to stress that like with any tweeter, including diamond dome tweeters, even amongst these there are very significant differences.

    I have enough experience in the field to confidently state that the SEAS white diamond sounds as good as it does due to a combination of the vapor deposited diamond dome (there are different ways of creating a diamond dome and this is by far the best method) in combination with SEAS's patented Hexadym magnet system, which is unique in that there are no magnets directly behind the dome. This has measurable advantages.

    In addition, Claus stated to me that he feels some of the performance is also due to the optimized shaping of the damping chambers behind the dome.

    I really think you should give one of our ribbon speakers a try, just for kicks
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by RPM View Post
    Dave, for the "Diamond Edition" Towers would you anticipate similar
    Sensitivity & power handling capabilities as NRT / RAAL or possibly Higher output?
    Thanks, Dave
    This depends, if we make entirely new models - this would depend on the components of the new model. If it is an upgrade, the sensitivity of the white diamond tweeter is nearly identical to that of our NrT dome and the tweeter is not the limiting aspect of power handling, so if upgrading - sensitivity and power handling would be the same...
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  7. #47
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    Exclamation Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    I really think you should give one of our ribbon speakers a try, just for kicks
    I will Dave...planning to have my order in for Sierra 2's in Piano Black by the end of June!!!

    I've no doubt that the S2's with the RAAL's will be equal or better than what I experienced with the B&W 800-D3 series diamonds and as you read, I really loved that effortless top end extension! The NrT's are great, but finding when pushed, they can become too forward in presentation, giving a hint of fatigue over extended heavy playback sessions. In my small listening space, if I let them, they take over the room real quick! Otherwise, the NrT's are still the best soft domes out there!

    One day once it comes full circle, I'd like to experience the Ascend Diamond Series ...I'm sure that will be an ultimate Mind Blower!

    Ted
    Last edited by theophile; 05-03-2016 at 09:16 AM.
    Sierra RAAL V2 Towers, Axiom EP 500 Sub, Morrow SP7 Grand Reference Speaker Cables, Phillips CD880 XLR Balanced Variable Line Output to Orchard Audio Strakrimson 375w/per ch Stereo Ultra GaNFET Amp..... (Dedicated 2.1 Acoustical Music Listening Room)!

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Dave,

    Any new development with THESE?

    Ted
    Sierra RAAL V2 Towers, Axiom EP 500 Sub, Morrow SP7 Grand Reference Speaker Cables, Phillips CD880 XLR Balanced Variable Line Output to Orchard Audio Strakrimson 375w/per ch Stereo Ultra GaNFET Amp..... (Dedicated 2.1 Acoustical Music Listening Room)!

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    132

    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    What are the dispersion characteristics of the diamond tweeter? Thanks.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Diamond Tweeter?

    Quote Originally Posted by theophile View Post
    Dave,

    Any new development with THESE?

    Ted
    Hi Ted,

    Sorry - this is low priority for us right now, with all of our efforts focused on the forthcoming Sat's. I will likely dive deep into this towards the end of the summer.
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

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