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Thread: Alternative to Ryhmik

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    101

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by ematthews View Post
    Thanks Dave. I know I spoke with you many times when I owned my last Rythmik. Maybe I just like a non accurate sub.
    That is a big maybe. Maybe it is the setup. What type of music do you listen to? Since it is a 2.1 system, how do you do bass management? Phase and crossover adjustment is important. In particular phase can cause energy cancellation between front speakers and subwoofer. If you are looking for the kick drum bass impact, that is in the midbass frequency band (60hz to 150hz). That is different from "boomy" though. Boomy also means slow. So the key question how to you think the sound can be improved and we can help better based on that information.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    USA
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    3,718

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by dtsequoia View Post
    Hey ematthews,

    I currently have the Aperion Bravus IID 10". I think it may have what you are looking for.

    Here is a link from Audioholics and their review:
    http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/bravus-10d

    On the last page for measurements, you can see the bloom you're looking for.
    Based on the measurements for this sub, I would not recommend it. It would be a significant downgrade from the F12.
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Grand Haven, MI
    Posts
    87

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Based on the measurements for this sub, I would not recommend it. It would be a significant downgrade from the F12.
    Haha, Dave you are totally right. I just threw it out there. After hearing my father-in-laws LV12R...I have been dying to upgrade. I have the worst buyers remorse buying that Aperion. It was literally the day after the return period that I found out about you guys and Rhythmic....
    -Ben

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by RythmikAudio View Post
    That is a big maybe. Maybe it is the setup. What type of music do you listen to? Since it is a 2.1 system, how do you do bass management? Phase and crossover adjustment is important. In particular phase can cause energy cancellation between front speakers and subwoofer. If you are looking for the kick drum bass impact, that is in the midbass frequency band (60hz to 150hz). That is different from "boomy" though. Boomy also means slow. So the key question how to you think the sound can be improved and we can help better based on that information.
    I listen to Prog Rock like Porcupine Tree. Devin Townsend Project, Riverside, Rush. I am using a Preamp from Parasound.. The P5 which has bass management. I am looking for kick drum but also the impact of the bass guitar on low notes. A lot of my music is more bass guitar driven than Elec guitar. My last Rythmik was good, it just didn't seem to get loud enough. I am open to trying another one and get it right here from Dave. Any suggestions? I am running them with RAAL Towers.

  5. #15
    Join Date
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    USA
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    3,718

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by ematthews View Post
    I listen to Prog Rock like Porcupine Tree. Devin Townsend Project, Riverside, Rush. I am using a Preamp from Parasound.. The P5 which has bass management. I am looking for kick drum but also the impact of the bass guitar on low notes. A lot of my music is more bass guitar driven than Elec guitar. My last Rythmik was good, it just didn't seem to get loud enough. I am open to trying another one and get it right here from Dave. Any suggestions? I am running them with RAAL Towers.
    Go with the best, the FV15HP

    What are your room dimension?
    .
    .
    .
    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by davef View Post
    Go with the best, the FV15HP

    What are your room dimension?
    Really??? Ported? Is it wise to do this with an audio only system? Can this sub run with the ports filled and make it non ported/sealed?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    101

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by ematthews View Post
    I listen to Prog Rock like Porcupine Tree. Devin Townsend Project, Riverside, Rush. I am using a Preamp from Parasound.. The P5 which has bass management. I am looking for kick drum but also the impact of the bass guitar on low notes. A lot of my music is more bass guitar driven than Elec guitar. My last Rythmik was good, it just didn't seem to get loud enough. I am open to trying another one and get it right here from Dave. Any suggestions? I am running them with RAAL Towers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ematthews View Post
    Really??? Ported? Is it wise to do this with an audio only system? Can this sub run with the ports filled and make it non ported/sealed?
    Ported vs sealed is just a general guideline. It does not mean sealed subs always sound tighter than ported subs. Some sealed subs are just downright boomy. Your Sierra-2 is also ported. Does that make it less good than a selaed version? Do we suggest customers to plug the port to make it sealed? No. Dave had spend a lot of time to get the frequency response to the damping setting that he think is neutral. The decision of ported vs sealed also affects efficiency. In short, the debate btw sealed and ported goes beyond just labelling. What we need is find out what you really like.

    Dave suggest FV15 becasue you mention the output is not enough. So we assume you just need more output and assume you play pretty loud. If you don't play loud, you can just boost the sub volume and that should give you the output. Another question is when you had F12, had you experimented with different damping setting and found what you liked? High damping sound of FV15HP is similar to the mid damping of our F15HP/F12. If you like the "full body" bass of F12 in mid damping or even low damping, then FV15HP or ported subs can actually give you that and at the same time plays 9db louder. It has this flexible damping control. You can create the type of bass sound you'd like.

    Lastly, the midbass kick. I know you have said that is not what you are really after. But I think it may be and you just didn't realize. I once went to a demo of PA subwoofer and found that kick drum bass were much stronger and impressive. But as I listened more, I can tell the sound does not have the detail that we normally hear get from a home system. In addition, the midbass is so strong that it has become one-note and lack of texture detail. It is a euphonic form of one-note bass. The way to create that type of sound is 1) cut out low bass becasue low bass not only takes power and less audible, it distracts your brain as unnecessary nuances/background noise that you don't really care, and 2) boost midbass. Midbass is far more audible than low bass. Strong midbass fools a lot of listeners into thinking they hear more bass. To take advantage of that fact, there is a patent from SRS on how to make small subwoofers sound big bass. The trick is to intentionally create a lot of harmonic distortions in the midbass frequency range. The second trick speaker designers use when the bass is limited is to make the roll-off contour low damping. Low damping has a hump in FR before it starts to roll off. So on our F12, if you pick 28hz, then you almost want to use low damping. Again that is a trick to give you one note bass because low damping has more ringing.
    Last edited by RythmikAudio; 01-09-2016 at 11:59 AM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    i was a hsu sub fan , and with my new house, it wouldn't pressurize the room.I tried a Mark Seaton sub, and have never regretted it.He has a upgradable path to add a second if you need it.The 2 -15" sealed enclosure ,will bring a smile.ht is fabulous !

    I would like to hear the rhymik .i am doing a second room and the price of one is very attractive !

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    I am just going to buy another Rythmik from Ascend. This time a 15. Thanks everyone.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    216

    Default Re: Alternative to Ryhmik

    Quote Originally Posted by RythmikAudio View Post
    Ported vs sealed is just a general guideline. It does not mean sealed subs always sound tighter than ported subs. Some sealed subs are just downright boomy. Your Sierra-2 is also ported. Does that make it less good than a selaed version? Do we suggest customers to plug the port to make it sealed? No. Dave had spend a lot of time to get the frequency response to the damping setting that he think is neutral. The decision of ported vs sealed also affects efficiency. In short, the debate btw sealed and ported goes beyond just labelling. What we need is find out what you really like.

    Dave suggest FV15 becasue you mention the output is not enough. So we assume you just need more output and assume you play pretty loud. If you don't play loud, you can just boost the sub volume and that should give you the output. Another question is when you had F12, had you experimented with different damping setting and found what you liked? High damping sound of FV15HP is similar to the mid damping of our F15HP/F12. If you like the "full body" bass of F12 in mid damping or even low damping, then FV15HP or ported subs can actually give you that and at the same time plays 9db louder. It has this flexible damping control. You can create the type of bass sound you'd like.

    Lastly, the midbass kick. I know you have said that is not what you are really after. But I think it may be and you just didn't realize. I once went to a demo of PA subwoofer and found that kick drum bass were much stronger and impressive. But as I listened more, I can tell the sound does not have the detail that we normally hear get from a home system. In addition, the midbass is so strong that it has become one-note and lack of texture detail. It is a euphonic form of one-note bass. The way to create that type of sound is 1) cut out low bass becasue low bass not only takes power and less audible, it distracts your brain as unnecessary nuances/background noise that you don't really care, and 2) boost midbass. Midbass is far more audible than low bass. Strong midbass fools a lot of listeners into thinking they hear more bass. To take advantage of that fact, there is a patent from SRS on how to make small subwoofers sound big bass. The trick is to intentionally create a lot of harmonic distortions in the midbass frequency range. The second trick speaker designers use when the bass is limited is to make the roll-off contour low damping. Low damping has a hump in FR before it starts to roll off. So on our F12, if you pick 28hz, then you almost want to use low damping. Again that is a trick to give you one note bass because low damping has more ringing.
    Great info. Thanks a bunch. I am going to order another Rythmik.

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