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Thread: Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

  1. #751
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,538

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    Quote Originally Posted by palm101 View Post
    I am using a pair of sierra 2 for left and right. Salk sound's WOW1 as Centre. Marantz 6010 is powering the speakers. All calibrated with XT32. So I am finding that the WOW1 is distorting near reference. I am seated about 6-7 feet from the speakers. Would the Luna be an upgrade from the WOW1 or I'm better off with another Sierra 2.
    In many respects, the WOW1 and Luna are quite similar (similar woofers). While I do think the Luna would be the better center channel, due to near identical timbre matching with the Sierra-2 - if your major issue is the WOW1 running out of steam - unless there is something wrong with your WOW1 , the Luna would likely have similar issues.

    Beave has made some excellent posts. One thing you need to try -- turn Audyssey completely off, are you still having distortion issues? If no, Audyssey is likely applying too much boost at some frequencies and since the WOW1 (and Luna) are somewhat low sensitivity - the Marantz itself might be the cause (running out of steam = clipping).

    The major drawback of all these room EQ systems is that they have no idea what the actual capabilities of the speaker is, or even what the capabilities of the actual amp they are sending the signal to is.

    At some point, I hope they will introduce a servo system such that the Auto EQ system will take measurements at increasing volume levels to determine at which point the speaker and amplifier reach their limitations. Perhaps I should have patented this idea prior to making it public?

    Auto-Eq has been and continues to present constant problems for speaker manufacturers because when something goes wrong and a speaker doesn't sound right or a transducer blows -- first company they take issue with is the speaker company...
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    .
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    Good Sound To You!

    David Fabrikant
    www.ascendacoustics.com

  2. #752
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    I have the Marantz 6010 as well, and I have to say that Audyssey has been a huge disappointment to me personally. Although I haven't experienced the distortion issue, I find the calibration to be extremely buggy and arbitrary (ie, running the identical setup three times in a row gave three very different results, two wildly so, and none of them even close to acceptable). I also find it pushes odd frequencies (which might distort near reference) and in general sounds extremely artificial to my ears. As a result I use the direct setting exclusively with music, and the Aud only for movies and/or at very low volumes. In those cases I find the extra boost in the rears to be helpful sometimes. YMMV.

  3. #753
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    51

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    I got my Lunas within days of Audyssey releasing their MultEQ app for recent (2016 and later) model receivers, allowing Audyssey Pro-style tweaking from your phone. I took the opportunity to re-calibrate my setup with new Luna surrounds to go with my Sierra 2 LCR.

    You need to know what you're doing a bit more, but you can correct for things Dave pointed, like speaker capabilities, and even set the freq cutoff for EQ to EQ only bass, where room correction actually makes sense. You can even see that Audyssey does try to figure out speaker capabilities and defines a target curve that rolls off in the bass differently for speaker groups. It can get this wrong though, and being able to tweak the target based on known speaker capabilities is a huge help to the final result.

    I've had differing experiences with Audyssey (and auto eq in general). What I've found:
    1. Newer systems keep improving in both how they measure and quality of results. XT 32 does much better with subs and the measurement stage will now redo the initial sub measurement at different volume if too high/low to be accurate.
    2. It's on the user to place the mic well. Audyssey now recommends a tight grouping for multiple measurements. Start with primary position, and all other measurements should be within roughly 2 feet. Doing all 8 measurements on a tripod yields best results.
    3. Bass is a huge part of overall sound quality. You should get/borrow an SPL meter and just play around with moving your sub(s) and measuring tones. Always set up your sub the best you can before running auto eq. Same goes for speaker placement (especially if running full range) before running EQ.
    4. MultEQ app let me tweak things and avoid EQing high frequencies. It also allows disabling the midrange compensation (BBC) dip designed to fix crossover issues around 2khz. I've never had issues with an Ascend speaker in any freq range and so I disabled this dip. By the way, what is the crossover freq for the Sierra 2/Luna? This got me to the point of not feeling the need to disable Audyssey for music. In fact, I now prefer it enabled.

    Personal preferences:
    1. Audyssey Dynamic EQ works far better than any loudness control I've ever used and makes low volume listening just as engaging as reference level. In theory, it makes anything below reference level more accurate and faithful based on human perception of frequencies at varying volumes. So I don't see it as a gimmick, but actually the most correct way to listen.
    2. Audyssey Dynamic Volume is way ahead of old night modes and is much needed (at the lowest setting) for movies in my 50s built San Francisco apartment. I of course don't use it for music.

    By the way, the Lunas are practically overkill for surrounds, but the seamless blend with the 2s is oh so nice for everything from movies, to video games, to multichannel music

  4. #754
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
    I got my Lunas within days of Audyssey releasing their MultEQ app for recent (2016 and later) model receivers, allowing Audyssey Pro-style tweaking from your phone. I took the opportunity to re-calibrate my setup with new Luna surrounds to go with my Sierra 2 LCR.

    You need to know what you're doing a bit more, but you can correct for things Dave pointed, like speaker capabilities, and even set the freq cutoff for EQ to EQ only bass, where room correction actually makes sense. You can even see that Audyssey does try to figure out speaker capabilities and defines a target curve that rolls off in the bass differently for speaker groups. It can get this wrong though, and being able to tweak the target based on known speaker capabilities is a huge help to the final result.

    I've had differing experiences with Audyssey (and auto eq in general). What I've found:
    1. Newer systems keep improving in both how they measure and quality of results. XT 32 does much better with subs and the measurement stage will now redo the initial sub measurement at different volume if too high/low to be accurate.
    2. It's on the user to place the mic well. Audyssey now recommends a tight grouping for multiple measurements. Start with primary position, and all other measurements should be within roughly 2 feet. Doing all 8 measurements on a tripod yields best results.
    3. Bass is a huge part of overall sound quality. You should get/borrow an SPL meter and just play around with moving your sub(s) and measuring tones. Always set up your sub the best you can before running auto eq. Same goes for speaker placement (especially if running full range) before running EQ.
    4. MultEQ app let me tweak things and avoid EQing high frequencies. It also allows disabling the midrange compensation (BBC) dip designed to fix crossover issues around 2khz. I've never had issues with an Ascend speaker in any freq range and so I disabled this dip. By the way, what is the crossover freq for the Sierra 2/Luna? This got me to the point of not feeling the need to disable Audyssey for music. In fact, I now prefer it enabled.

    Personal preferences:
    1. Audyssey Dynamic EQ works far better than any loudness control I've ever used and makes low volume listening just as engaging as reference level. In theory, it makes anything below reference level more accurate and faithful based on human perception of frequencies at varying volumes. So I don't see it as a gimmick, but actually the most correct way to listen.
    2. Audyssey Dynamic Volume is way ahead of old night modes and is much needed (at the lowest setting) for movies in my 50s built San Francisco apartment. I of course don't use it for music.

    By the way, the Lunas are practically overkill for surrounds, but the seamless blend with the 2s is oh so nice for everything from movies, to video games, to multichannel music
    Excellent thoughts and info, appreciate it.

  5. #755
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    How would one buy a pair of Luna's for surround speakers? What's the price tag on these?

    As a budget audiophile with a pair of Sierra-2's in the Front L / R, is it necessary to get these in surrounds, or is something like the CMT-340, CBM-170 or HTM-200 better serving the purpose?

    Also, Off topic, Would the Sierra Horizons be overkill as a center?

    Listening distance: 8.6 ft measured by YPAO

    Room Size: 10' by 15'

    Sub: PSA S1500
    Last edited by Roen; 06-07-2017 at 10:12 AM.

  6. #756
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantom View Post
    By the way, the Lunas are practically overkill for surrounds, but the seamless blend with the 2s is oh so nice for everything from movies, to video games, to multichannel music
    What surrounds would you recommend with the Sierra-2's, if you want to play multichannel music? Preference is not overkill, but right at the limit of perfectly matched.

  7. #757
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    NW Pennsylvania
    Posts
    696

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Roen View Post
    What surrounds would you recommend with the Sierra-2's, if you want to play multichannel music? Preference is not overkill, but right at the limit of perfectly matched.
    Luna's or Sierra-2s imo. I don't think they're overkill at all. If you use dome tweeters as surrounds, you'll notice a difference in timbre with multi-channel music
    Nate

  8. #758
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    What about Luna's to fill the Center and Surrounds? Sierra-2 for L/R

  9. #759
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    Quote Originally Posted by Roen View Post
    How would one buy a pair of Luna's for surround speakers? What's the price tag on these?

    As a budget audiophile with a pair of Sierra-2's in the Front L / R, is it necessary to get these in surrounds, or is something like the CMT-340, CBM-170 or HTM-200 better serving the purpose?

    Also, Off topic, Would the Sierra Horizons be overkill as a center?

    Listening distance: 8.6 ft measured by YPAO

    Room Size: 10' by 15'

    Sub: PSA S1500
    just my personal opinion (though I've owned all the speakers mentioned apart from the 340 and the Lunas)

    For a center, another Sierra 2 would be ideal.
    While the Horizon is a more robust speaker all around, you will get a more seamless soundstage with three identical speakers up front.
    Add to that the Sierra 2 is ridiculously underrated for center channel use.

    For surrounds, again the most ideal option would be more Sierra 2's. However in your size room, given the space needed around them to really shine, the front ported Lunas would be a much better option.
    Those will give you the most cohesive fill in conjunction with the Sierra 2s up front.

    That said, possibly the most impressive speaker in Ascends line up to me is the HTM 200. And I say that only after having listened to it paired with Sierra 2 and the RAAL Towers and Horizons. If you are on a budget, the 200 is an unbelievable steal to pair with either of those. I've owned mine for 15 years now, 14 of those having them paired with the CBM 170s. Never in all that time have them impressed me like they have after pairing them with the RAAL speakers. For some bizarre reason they just seemed to come to life all of a sudden.

    Someday I will give the Lunas a shot. I do expect them to be better and kick everything up a notch. But I know I'm gonna be paying for that extra __%...dearly.

    One caveat here is I'm strictly using these for HT, not multi channel music. For that application, I have no doubt the Lunas will be the ideal...but again, you will have to pay for it compared to the more than functional 200s.

  10. #760
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    360

    Default Re: New for 2016 - Introducing the Luna Mini Monitor!

    Quote Originally Posted by natetg57 View Post
    Luna's or Sierra-2s imo. I don't think they're overkill at all. If you use dome tweeters as surrounds, you'll notice a difference in timbre with multi-channel music
    I agree. I'm running Sierra 2's for all 5 channels and it sounds amazing. Having the Raals in the surround speakers really gives you that detail and clarity all around for movies or multi channel music.

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